Join the mixed-sex loo resistance movement!

[WomanBornNotWorn]

Ideas for what we can do:

Theatres etc - go up to box office loudly asking 'where are the ladies'?' again and again as loudly as you can so the representative has to keep repeating the answer - if you're in a group, take it in turns for variety.

Ring an offending restaurant and book a table for six. Then ask 'I assume you have separate men's and women's loos?' then when they say no, say 'ah no, that doesn't work for us. I'll cancel that and we'll book at (name bitterest rival restaurant that does have separate loos) instead'. Get everyone you know to do it. Make sure you've blocked your number.

Come out of cubicle with full moon cup and wash it out in front of any men present (just pray they're not menophiliac).

Stickers. Lots of stickers.

Learn the statistics so you can recite the evidence of sexual assaults in mixed space etc etc whenever you're contradicted. 'In fact, Home Office statistics show that xx% ... ' etc.

Train your daughters to understand why we are saying no and to have the confidence to speak out. And your sons, too.

I was quite sympathetic to the opposition to mixed sex loos. Then I went on a train journey. And realised I've been using mixed sex loos for years without realising it.

In my experience, loos on trains are usually covered in men’s piss.

And also always single occupancy, unless there's a special train with giant loos that I'm not aware of.

I was quite sympathetic to the opposition to mixed sex loos. Then I went on a train journey. And realised I've been using mixed sex loos for years without realising it.

That's astonishing. So, all the reasons why you opposed mixed sex toilets, suddenly disappeared because of one bog?

Do you base all your other decisions on a singular, solitary experience? That not only is a single experience, but is only your experience?

I was quite sympathetic to rape survivors, until I realised I've never been raped.

she says they know it's the way things have to be now, so, well, what can you do

This makes me so sad and so bloody cross. That this movement relies on women gritting their teeth and accepting it.

Actually, in the case of uni’s, parents and grandparents, who often pay the fees, should complain and demand single sex provision. Money talks now that unis are basically businesses.

Train toilets are single-entry, single-occupancy with a sink entirely enclosed within the facility. They are unisex, not mixed-sex because they are used by one person, who is of course only of one sex, at any one time.

We are discussing multi-entry, multi-occupancy sanitary facilities that several people use at the same time. With blocks of cubicles with ideally lockable doors plus shared sinks. Only those can be mixed-sex.

As for those who see no problem with reducing toilet provision for women by allowing men access:

You may be okay, most of us are not. As you are not bothered by mixed-sex facilities, you may use them wherever you may find them.

Feel free not to avail yourself of the rights that our foremothers fought for, that countless women and girls across the world are still fighting for. But our right to privacy, dignity and safety in the female-only facilities is not yours to give away.

Consent is not transferable.

Awesome Charley 💪💪💪

Seconded.

PP1 about mixed-sex uni loos: she says they know it's the way things have to be now, so, well, what can you do

PP2: This makes me so sad and so bloody cross. That this movement relies on women gritting their teeth and accepting it.

And the Uni "feminist" society will be the first to tell complainants that they are bigoted terfs who need to check their "cis privilege". FemSocs these days are not worthy of the name "feminist".

The Handmaiden Society would be a more apt name for most of them.

I think we could possibly all write TripAdvisor reviews for anywhere that has unsatisfactorily mixed sex facilities. Might be a useful thread to add links and then whoever goes to these places can add their own reviews to complain about the lack of female only provision.

I agree. I've seen these reviews for a couple of places, can't remember exactly where. I would swerve if I had the casting vote of where to go.

That's a good idea. Other review sites like Yelp too.

I do wonder what would happen if women took to strolling in safe groups into mixed loos with urinals, and just stood around. Watching. Smiling politely, saying 'nice out tonight, isn't it?'

I positively don’t want to use the same toilet facilities as men for all the reasons listed on the thread- it’s fucking horrible.
Even the floor to ceiling self contained gender neutral ones.
I want normal old single sex toilets for women please. The kind that adult men can be asked to leave if they go into them.

Is there no legal way to insist on single sex toilet provision within new developments and to oppose the removal of existing single sex toilet provision?
I am fine with third space toileting to be provided in addition, for the use of anyone who doesn’t like to use single sex facilities but this should not be provided at the expense of single sex facilities (which should also be disabled accessible).

Some threads about why women want and need single sex toilets- taken from a roundup on this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3203454-What-do-you-use-the-womens-toilets-for

This isn’t even all of the links on the thread, there are others too. Clearly women value women-only toilets for a lot of different reasons, ‘gender neutral’ or mixed sex, unisex toilets are to me a much less comfortable, safe, private situation. I think women should be able to legally insist on women’s toilets being made available (and legally not removed/repurposed if they are already in place as women’s toilets).

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3581606-Resource-thread-with-concrete-examples-of-men-being-grim-in-unisex-toilets

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3577718-Eddy-Izzards-says-women-should-be-forced-to-share-bathrooms-with-men?pg=1&order=

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3572891-Everyman-Cinemas-and-toilets-for-everyone-a-womans-review-AIBU

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3569596-Workplace-toilets-ACAS

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3559632-Uniex-toilets-who-likes-them

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3570988-Law-on-unisex-loos-in-places-of-entertainment

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3571591-Asked-to-do-work-survey-on-transgender-in-workplace-and-includes-gender-neutral-toilets-Help-me-respond-in-600-words

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3555187-NZ-Ambassador-on-trial-for-planting-hidden-camera-in-unisex-toilets-of-Washington-DC-embassy

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3554058-Daily-Mail-Dominic-Lawson-Article-on-Gender-Neutral-Toilets

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3553562-A-Day-Using-Restaurant-Toilets

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3550795-Words-matter-unisex-toilets-are-mixed-sex

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3546428--Gender-neutral-toilets-first-experience

This thread has tips for anyone wanting to improve design in women’s toilets:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3548768-Look-at-the-design-of-the-toilet-Some-actually-asked-a-woman

This thread links to a key legal resource:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3577063-The-Louise-Whitfield-legal-document-on-right-to-same-sex-facilities

There are quite a few recent threads which focus on the problems both girls and some boys are having with gender neutral toilets.

Long story short: Women and girls need single sex toilets.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3575919-Toilets-at-childs-school

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3506533-Mixed-sex-toilets-in-schools-childrens-actual-views

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3572220-The-law-on-mixed-sex-toilets-in-schools

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3567313-UK-school-toilets-this-never-happens

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3561963-US-Female-student-expelled-for-kneeing-boy-in-the-groin-while-in-girls-bathroom?pg=2&order=

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3557951-Walkout-at-US-highschool-on-transgender-use-of-toilets

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3557203-New-Debate-Kit-Unisex-Toilets-downloadable-from-the-RI-for-schools

The uni issues are escalating, assaults, rapes that are now routinely going unreported to the police as uni have their own ways of 'handling' which involve no custodial sentences for perpetrators of course, and no support for the young women assaulted and raped.

Powers have been handed over to them to manage these things on campus it seems!! . FFS.

Toilets...pfft!

Womens rights are being eroded everywhere and some women actually support it!

The thing about the train or airplane toilet is that they are unisex, AND, they are surrounded by other travellers.

So many can see the queue, and if a woman were to be pushed into a toilet. Its not a place for opportunists to hang out really.

Great idea OP - I'm in. The only way we can stem this tide is to create havoc in the loos formerly known as men's loos. I will be using the "cubicles with urinals" whenever I see them and I always have a stash of stickers in my bag so no problem on that front. We will need to block loos with sanitary towels, spend lots of time hanging out chatting by the mirrors making men using the urinals feel uncomfortable and may need to do some rearranging dragging hygiene bins over to the urinals (and if there are no hygiene bins we'll need to complain about this to the front desk (repeatedly)). I suspect that some strategically badly-disposed of bloody STs/tampons won't go amiss either - for once having a period will be advantageous. Men need to see the impact of (lots of) disgruntled women in their spaces.

My DD's secondary has "gender neutral" toilets, with floor to ceiling walls and doors but sinks are in a row OUTSIDE the toilets.

DD hates it - she says the toilets are all disgusting and have pee everywhere and she is getting UTI's from holding so she doesn't have to go at school - she won't unless she is literally about to wet herself and this is causing her issues at home.

Do these regulations apply to schools (England, academy school) and can I send/show anything to the head.

They don't even have a trans child there yet!! But no doubt with this bull shit will allow a boy to change in with the girls.

Sorry - cross post - have seen links above.

Stand in groups in the urinal-free space talking very loudly about …

'Fetish.'

Menophilia - sexual arousal at the idea, sight, smell etc of menstruation including wearing used sanitary products fished out of the disposal bin

Urolagia/urolagnia - sexual arousal by sight, sound, smell etc of urination

'Fetishistic disorder is a much more common occurrence in males than in females .. it appears almost exclusively in males' says Psychology Today

www.psychologytoday.com/intl/conditions/fetishistic-disorder

I feel bad for nice men who'll be embarrassed and inconvenienced.

But the deafening silence from men on this whole mess has to end.

The fetish objects are not articles of clothing used in cross-dressing

That was an interesting statement in a linked article,
www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/sex-life-the-american-male/201403/unacknowledged-harm-masturbation

Discussed in terms of being a male disorder/s

Pedophilia – Sexual activity with a prepubescent child
Exhibitionism – Exposure of one’s genitals to an unsuspecting stranger
Frotteurism – Touching and rubbing against a nonconsenting person
Transvestic fetishism - Sexual arousal to cross-dressing
Coprophilia – Sexual excitement by being smeared with and/or ingesting feces
Necrophilia – Sexual excitement via sexual interaction with a corpse
Klismaphilia – Sexual excitement by being given an enema
Asphyxiophilia – Sexual excitement by self-strangulation

I have seen posters on MN make mentions of being able to touch women when they don't realise, in a gloaty way. These were also during threads where women were repeatedly stating the need for women only spaces.

I was and at hearing it, and did think it pretty rapey speech, but hadn't realised it's actually a male paraphelia disorder.

It also makes reference to the sources of these fetishes as harmful childhoods. Damaged individuals who, as part of the disorder, are extremely adept at keeping their paraphelias covert, often with noone else in their life knowing about them.

Stands to reason there will be more of them than acknowledged numbers that have sought help, as help being rarely sort is part of the disorder also.

I feel a bout of stickering coming on.

Incidentally, I have found a useful sticker alternative is a nice clean slimline sanitary liner. Easy to sharpie or biro with a snappy message and a link to further info, self adhesive and particularly good for adding a touch of ‘biological reality’ to mixed sex toilets.

We will need to block loos with sanitary towels,
So, damage the environment by flushing sanitary towels down the loo! Wtf!

I suggest asking where the women's toilets are every time you come across 'toilets with urinals/cubicles' signs. Ask why it doesn't have a sign saying women on it. Having to answer unnecessary questions may make them think again. If you are told you can choose - use the 'with urinals'. The more men are inconvenienced by this the better the chances of reversing this bullshit.