NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #9

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8

No, just a coin. Heads it's a boy, tails it's a girl.

This is absolutely insane. To have got to having to say all this in a court room.

I am a woman

I am not a man

From someone who has every single element of maleness and male experiences and male socialisation

Revolting

And it's back to the article by Glosswitch about how if she'd have kept keeping quiet he wouldn't have done anything (though he woukd have made notes and kept mentioning it to his supervisor) but because she said something, she deserves all this

I can only assume that his, frankly scary and insane way of thinking has come about since he qualified otherwise he would have failed his exams. Goodness only knows what triggered it. Maybe some sort of mental breakdown/head injury?

My DS is doing a medical related degree and his uni is (rightly) very hot about the biological difference between M & F in regard to drug prescribing/research etc as you would expect.

At this point he sounds no better than a witch doctor telling people to heal with their feelings rather than scientific fact and evidence.

Just catching up on the thread, but at least it has now been established for the watching world that TW:

• do not have to have a GRC
• do not have to have any medical treatment
• are women because they say so

So, hopefully all those who vaguely thought 'oh live and let live' can now see clearly why self-ID is a danger to women.

Which is why JR chimed in when she did.

Can we ask, what does he think that makes him biologically female? I just can't get my head around someone having the gall to state in court that despite the penis, and the testicles and the male pattern baldness that he is biologically female. On what basis???

DrU would have us believe girls have tails so this seems apt

Talking about a fictional book is a hell of a lot less bad than actual women having their rights to single sex spaces taken away. Dolatowski, Bryon, White, and many more - women and children are being harmed by this ideology and the fact so many institutions are rolling over for the fantasies of men vs the truth and reality. 1984 is just a book.

I have a bad feeling that the Judge might insist we all state that we've always been at war with Eastasia.

I notice that when he stood up, Upton buttoned up his jacket immediately. Women don't do that.

Well, whilst the judge may not allow NC to pursue the 1984 question it's been said. It doesn't really matter what DU's answer is.
I bet JR is regretting her intervention now. All it achieved was to give the judge the opportunity to break for lunch and leave the question hanging.

Literally just because he's a biological being, and he believes trans women are women, hence biological female! It's insane!

I can see why the HR lady has been off work for so long.

Thank you for all the updates

Because he can say it. And he forces others to go alone with it.

There is nothing more to it.

Biology does include the brain and psychology. Perhaps anatomically male or female would leave less room for sophistry about having a "female brain" making one biologically female?

Sex is observed (not assigned) at birth based on external genitalia. Then if something doesn't appear quite right, eg early puberty, no usual puberty etc a blood test will be done to determine sex.

Thank goodness. It’s taken me my whole lunch break to catch up. 😅
But it’s 🫣🫣🫣
Did he just, did he really, are you saying… 🤯

I’m exhausted just from reading.

God I go off to attend to something and come back to a different thread!

Upton believes that Upton is a woman and, therefore, female, and that Upton is made of biological stuff ergo a biological female.

He says he is biological.
And he is a female.

That is his argument. I fell off the chair laughing.

Upwards of 550 tuned in to this.

Let's do some summing up over lunch.

So we now know that:
JR’s swimming pool has mixed-sex changing rooms
DrU doesn’t think it’s necessary to have separate M and F changing rooms, but does think it’s necessary that he use the women’s
DrU is not a robot and therefore is a biological woman (the Veronica Ivy defence)
We’re not in Sweden

Anything else?

Not from the UK but the hospital fills out a section of the paperwork that has to be submitted to register the birth. It states on there what sex the baby is. It’s probably changed since I had my DD.

I missed the 1984 question!!! what was it please?

He doesn't think he's female. He's lying and he knows it. He enjoys the power of making others, mostly women, capitulate to the lie.

Well I didn’t, my 2 were delivered by MWs. Maybe now despite being 16 and 18, one over 6 ft and the other built like a house, both with big muscles and Adams apples, that wasn’t correct?