NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #9

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8

This is dynamite. Masterclass from NC in handing over rope.

Can any legal bods comment on whether JR’s numerous interruptions are her doing her job/protecting her client - or a continuation of apparent needling of “The other side”. (Mispronunciation of Maya’s name, referring to NC as My Opponent not M’Learned Friend etc)

The Judge is probably making the mistake many do when first encountering this nonsense which is to think they do believe their own lies. Hence not reminding him even once to remember his oath.

The danger is that the Judge and panel only see DU as a deluded man with 'issues' that they should feel sorry for.

The reality is that it's not delusion - it's manipulation and calculated power games against women.

I'm just utterly speechless.

A man, who has a medical degree, becomes a Dr but then insists he is a woman. Surely one would question his poor mental health here? If he believes he is truly a woman and biological science is incorrect, how can he be trusted to continue to practice as a medical doctor?!

Is he still actually working at a NHS hospital? I'm just thinking of the poor biological men and women he is treating. Based on his ideas and mentality, he could be massively mis-diagnosing and prescribing incorrect medication...but we all know that he KNOWS what a woman is and he KNOWS how they differ from men and diagnoses and prescribes properly (you'd like to think anyway).

How? HOW has it got to this?!

You know that clip from India Willoughby on Big Brother, "I'm a real woman!"?

Basically that over and over again, after Naomi tried to pin him down all morning on the difference between him and a hypothetical big beardy bruiser called Pete.

Everything about this case comes back to 1984.

The whole subject does.

For a reason.

Basically that over and over again, after Naomi tried to pin him down all morning on the difference between him and a hypothetical big beardy bruiser called Pete.

He pretty much admitted that if "Pete" declared he was a woman, there is no difference.

I can't remember.

But I was asked just a few weeks ago to confirm I gave birth to my 13yo myself and didn't use a surrogate. The birth certificate has been beclowned so much the "mother" bit on the birth certificate isn't evidence of anything at all.

So women - be sure to have time stamp dated photographic evidence of your baby coming out of your vagina just in case some passport office asks you to prove you didn't use a surrogate many years into the future.

The trigger for demanding this evidence from me? I dared to be 43 & have a baby.

Oh he's doubled down on being a real live woman

Does he have his support crew today

Talk of the possible impact of questions on poor Dr Upton.
Was any such consideration given to Sandie when she was having to tell the world about her menstrual flooding?
Why? Why does everyone have to #bekind to just one of these people?
Again and again and again.

LOVED the 1984 question. That is exactly how it feels.

The danger is that the Judge and panel only see DU as a deluded man with 'issues' that they should feel sorry for.

The reality is that it's not delusion - it's manipulation and calculated power games against women.

THIS. I think the former point is the only reason this ideology has got as far as it has.

Thank you to all once more.
Reading along with my jaw on the floor.

Listening to the complete pile of absolute SHITE coming out of DU's gob this morning has given me a headache.

well clearly he is lying about being female.

The Judge knows he is lying - we all know he is lying, he knows he is lying, and yet all this is happeing "under oath".

Trans Oaths are Oaths.

Yes, like you say - he knows the difference. Like he doesn't know why separate male and female changing rooms are needed, but he knows that he needs to be in the women's.

I suppose it's like any other cult - the brainwashing goes deep.

I do hope NC will ask, given he considers himself biologically female, how he determines this crucial fact in others. A patient say, presenting with abdominal pain.

Me too. Utterly unbelievable.

apologies, I haven’t read the whole thread so may be repeating what others have said. But this bit - I’m female and I have a body so biologically female!?????

Dennis Noel Kavanagh has commented the following on Twitter -

'The number of objections is unusual, I remark that treating evidence like a three way conversation can give the impression of not having confidence in one own's witness or feeling an urgent need to insulate them from legitimate scrutiny.'

Haven't seen anything specific mentioned about the needling.

I actually couldn’t believe he said the word biological!

So, from what I've witnessed today, in the NHS in Scotland 'women's' facilities can contain women and abusive and / or delusional men. The decent men go in the males.

I'm quite tempted to just id into the men's if it's going to be men like U in the women's. He was enjoying himself this morning and really could not care less if SP was upset or distraught at all. I'd guess Men with Main character syndrome are more dangerous to women than your average man.

DU is looking more manly, as he's getting more bullish, isn't he? His hair has got disarranged so it's not covering his receding temples quite so well too. And he's forgetting the head tilt!
I expect him to regroup in the break, check in the mirror, suck his cheeks in and mince back in looking more 'womanly'...

@Sarahbackinthesaddle he’s a biological woman and nothing like big bearded Pete who would alarm people on coming into the changing room until he said he’s a woman at which point we’d all be fine with Pete, because she’s a biological woman now. Because she isn’t a robot. And it would be unkind to assume she was a predator.

I kid you not.

Though the Diet Coke and Levi ads got a mention, along with Beyoncé in her bra and knickers. I’d explain but you had to have been there 🤣

"I was only following orders"