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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 12

1000 replies

ickky · 24/05/2022 13:16

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Katherine McGahy (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)

To come:

Colin Cook - clerk at GCC (24 May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, to continue on 25th May)
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge.

OP posts:
chilling19 · 24/05/2022 14:58

'WHICH PARAGRAPH' or I can't be arsed with this crap.

SidewaysOtter · 24/05/2022 14:59

if the burden of proof is on the claimant, then the defendant could burn all evidence

Or lose it over the side of a boat...

Mollyollydolly · 24/05/2022 15:00

He's old school isn't he. Thinks all the spreadsheet stuff re WTF is bollocks. He's trying to hide it, I bet he eye rolled his head off when it came in.

ickky · 24/05/2022 15:00

So this computer system with the drop down boxes is an extra layer of work for the clerks that they really don't appreciate as they are already very busy. They do not fill it out correctly, so really it's pretty useless to show who got what and why.

OP posts:
Penguintears · 24/05/2022 15:00

Signalbox · 24/05/2022 14:54

Burden of proof is on the Claimant I think.

Yes AB has to prove this on the balance of probabilities (it doesn't have to be beyond reasonable doubt).

GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder · 24/05/2022 15:01

CC is sounding defensive & annoyed. The switch in tone & demeanour does create an impression. Not sure it's supportive of GCC's position.

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 24/05/2022 15:02

oh wow, he's saying it's impossible for a short case to block the diary because he would always move it.

chilling19 · 24/05/2022 15:02

Penguin - OK, on the balance of probabilities, the whole of GCC are arse covering because Stonewall (in my decidedly not legal opinion). Case closed. 👏

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 24/05/2022 15:03

If that's the case then why has none of the other GCC witnesses brought it up?

FacebookPhotos · 24/05/2022 15:03

"We put this system in place to help counteract discrimination against women but we didn't fill it in properly"

Not a convincing argument at all.

Penguintears · 24/05/2022 15:03

chilling19 · 24/05/2022 14:58

Gab - but, if the burden of proof is on the claimant, then the defendant could burn all evidence and say we are not guilty? Not arguing with your point, just trying to get it clear in my mind.

In that case the judge/jury/tribunal cam draw inferences from the suspicious lack of evidence.

In this case GC (alledgedly) did not provide all of the evidence they should have. That is one of AB's claims and the tribunal can draw inferences from that.

IDidntKnowItWasAParty · 24/05/2022 15:04

"I was very busy, you know"

Penguintears · 24/05/2022 15:04

Didn't he just contradict himself? I thought earlier he said he doesn't concentrate on QCs but looks after everyone equally. Now he says he focuses on the QCs.

GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder · 24/05/2022 15:04

CC is very busy too. That's on the bingo card, isn't it?

theemperorhasnoclothes · 24/05/2022 15:05

Too busy! Bingo!

FannyCann · 24/05/2022 15:05

Placemarking. Thanks as always to @ickky for excellent thread management.

IDidntKnowItWasAParty · 24/05/2022 15:06

"We put this system in place to help counteract discrimination against women but we didn't fill it in properly"

Very interesting.

Mollyollydolly · 24/05/2022 15:06

Fucking hell!!!!!!

LipbalmOrKnickers · 24/05/2022 15:06

Oh dear!

Ameanstreakamilewide · 24/05/2022 15:06

Big sigh from CC 'Fucking hell'...

Appalonia · 24/05/2022 15:06

Did he just swear??

chilling19 · 24/05/2022 15:06

Ooh fucking hell? 😂😂😂

FacebookPhotos · 24/05/2022 15:06

"fuckin' hell" indeed.

SidewaysOtter · 24/05/2022 15:06

OH MY GOD!!!

He thought his mic was off and it most definitely wasn't!

nauticant · 24/05/2022 15:06

Major microphone muting fail.

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