Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 12

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Katherine McGahy (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)

To come:

Colin Cook - clerk at GCC (24 May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, to continue on 25th May)
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge.

I cannot square her testimony with the blurb about her being expert at child protection.

I don't know why but I expected CM's evidence today to be something along the lines of 'I wasn't given AB's explanation & having seen that now & all the relevant information, I would likely have come to a different conclusion'. My mind is still blown that she not only doubled down, she chose to be as offensive as possible while doing that.

🤯

Some absolute stalwarts on this thread posting so many great updates for those of us unable to watch or listen live, thank you.

As for the content of today, just wow. I wish someone would ask each of these witnesses denying the cotton ceiling is about coercion how they would feel if told that they ought to be willing to have sex with people from the opposite sex group to those that they’re actually attracted to. Utterly mind boggling that this is being defended by intelligent people.

Has anyone posted this gem Mr Mann

That would have been the integrity and career saving route wouldn't it? I suspect she is so blinded by ideology she left her critical thinking at the door.

It would seem to be proving what we've said here for years: this narrative is a very popular bandwagon for some who are not really in past surface level - indeed they don't even understand what they claim to be supporting and can't explain it - but they are able to unleash misogyny and homophobia while being in untouchable and claiming righteousness. It is very hard to put a piece of paper between where gender ideology ends and mens rights activism starts. We've seen some very unpleasant men exposed in this way in the past few days.

In shorter terms; aspects of gender ideology have been named as a men's sexual rights movement from very early on.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · Today 21:52
GCC are such sports fans I suppose it must be of some comfort to them that Martina Navratilova now knows who they are. GCC and even the Vice Chair of the Bar Standards' Ethics Committee.

Strange old world, eh? Maybe they planned this into the overall marketing impact of this action.

That must be it. Some fiendishly cunning marketing strategy that would have eluded even Baldrick.

Football, they ONLY ever talk about football, they probably don’t even know who Navratilova is, she being one of those lesbians you know!

Brilliantly done 👏

Okay, but I am definitely not watching when Tom Wainwrights support pinworms come crawling out of his arse the woodwork.

Toxoplasmosis Stonewallii known to be similar to the puppetmaster impact wrongly attributed to toxoplasmosis gondii: it was plainly the Stonewallii variant all along.

carlzimmer.com/the-great-puppet-master-debate/

Or, if you prefer a more fungoid explanation of why parasites should cease killing and move more towards domesticating hosts in order to allow itself to thrive and expand its reach: Ophiocordyceps and how it developed from a "master parasite to evolve into an intimate partner that is so essential to survival."

twitter.com/carlzimmer/status/1433172506236571651

If there's a musical episode can we have a segment where Ben Cooper goes into his garden singing and his support wren lands on his finger and whistles along?

I just thought I would paste this bit of the equality act, in case any QC members of the bar standards ethics Committee are passing by.

12Sexual orientation
(1)Sexual orientation means a person's sexual orientation towards—
(a)persons of the same sex,
(b)persons of the opposite sex, or
(c)persons of either sex.

The weird thing is that in 2010 and probably in 2015 all these people knew that lesbians are not turned on by the male body, and trying to persuade them to be is wrong. They knew it.

I wonder if they thought about it they would be able to work out the moment when they 'forgot' this.

Football, they ONLY ever talk about football, they probably don’t even know who Navratilova is, she being one of those lesbians you know!

But what about Stephen Clark? The one with the SW chum (Head of Media? Jeff?) with whom he goes swimming? Surely in between Mariah Carey they might spare a thought for Martina Navratilova? Wouldn't she be a bridge between the barrister/clerks world?

Football, they ONLY ever talk about football, they probably don’t even know who Navratilova is, she being one of those lesbians you know!

Pound to a pinch of shit they're all cool about getting transwomen in women's football.

@GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder
I don't know why but I expected CM's evidence today to be something along the lines of 'I wasn't given AB's explanation & having seen that now & all the relevant information, I would likely have come to a different conclusion'. My mind is still blown that she not only doubled down, she chose to be as offensive as possible while doing that.

I expected the exact same! But it is clear that had she been given AB's explanations etc, she would have totally ignored them. I was completely blown away by her mad, non evidence based, unbelievably grossly offensive testimony. Vice Chair of the Ethics Committee. QC. Simply unbelievable.

Yes, the results of the Scottish government's Gender Recognition Reform consultation were excellent! www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555416-gender-recognition-reform-scotland-responses-published?

Perhaps that’s why Tom was scratching his arse. Stonewallii had got lodged in there.

Just bringing this over from the previous thread as it's such a good point:

IDidntKnowItWasAParty · Yesterday 19:35
Just to go back to Stephen Clark for a moment: when he said that with regard to why he thinks that women shouldn't have a right to single-sex spaces, he said he "approaches the subject from a human rights perspective" - hence proving that misogynists such as himself do not see women as human: only males are seen as human and hence only males have human rights. Women are some sort of sub-human servant class.

Sorry if I missed it but have we worked out what Colin Cook's 'fucking hell' (I maybe paraphrase) was about? I'm wondering if it was a reaction to a specific thing or just the general feeling that comes over witnesses at the end of a grilling by Ben.

I was listening to that, I think it was a reaction to the intense nature of the questioning by Ben C.

Just putting this here

Yes, he did. He seemed rather pleased about it. Not sure he paused to think how his tone might go down with EJ.

Just catching up on the thread and this made me lol @Birdsweepsin

I'm really quite annoyed that they don't start each session with a recap, you know the kind of thing - "PREVIOUSLY on Employment Tribunal...."

Can you imagine how long it would last if they did this?! We'd all still be logging in months from now. It would work when the film gets made into a Netflix multi-season drama though.

Well, another day and all that.

I’m up early to get stuff done so I can tune in at 9.30. I actually dreamed about it all last night ffs. Crazy times.