NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #30

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25
Thread 26: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5335861-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-26
Thread 27: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5372582-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-27
Thread 28: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5374630-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-28
Thread 29: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5374921-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-29

While I've caught up.
What is i/x or does ix mean?

am revolted by these NHS senior staff - even the women- supporting giving Upton access to nurses undressing, whilst knowing it would only affect other women, such as more junior nurses. They could 'support' men in female changing rooms, knowing they wouldn't have to get their kit off in front of him themselves, or be at risk of a man flashing.

It's like some of our female MPs- quite happy to support men in abuse support , public loos or swim changing rooms, as in their priviledged lives they won't be affected at all.

Vile.

Why does AI make Upton smaller than Peggie!?

I wonder if EP has a false sense of security because she is being questioned by a junior. Perhaps assuming that a. the claimant therefore doesn't think her evidence is that important and b. CE won't be as good as NC

I think that would be a very dangerous assumption.

CE questioning the lack of urgency in EP's response - let's talk about it next week kind of thing; presumably undermining EP's perception of seriousness of drU's experience...

Transcript of Kate Searle's email, from Maya Forstater who is at the tribunal and can view the bundle.
https://x.com/MForstater/status/1946162128957698119

IX - investigation

There's meant to be an image but it is unusually still under review.

Essentially the cartoon by 5suffragette which has Upton sobbing into his hands saying 'I just want you to take your clothes off Sandie!!!! Why won't you do it? You're scaring me!!!!' and Sandie with a WTF face.

Investigation, I think

One of the TT reporters also uses "c" for "about"

From TT

EP - middle of night didn't seem time to do... the right moment.
CE - knew when you were back, DU?
EP - I think we spoke about it.
CE - didn't know when SP around?
EP - no.
CE - DU understood you saw no critical urgency to escalation?
EP - recollection is rest, contact BMA as I said, then in cold light of day assess.
CE - Email you sent to ED and KS from your car after conv with DU. Pedestrian subject line - catch up
EP - yes
CE - ask for catch up in the next week
EP - yes
CE - not implying urgency?
EP - yes didn't know when people around

Fifer : so the loddie was in ticht danger fae gettin jumped. Needed a bodyguard to walk the length ay himsel tae the car. But then she's like eh nothing much happenin here, we'll just have a blether somewhen in the next fortnight eh. Aye dingy woosh like ken. It's like ma maths homework. Disnae add up. Got an F.

Thanks x

Wow. Just wow. Utterly disgusting. That makes me genuinely angry.

It does appear to be performative womaning. With a dose of deferential handmaiden seeking.

I am really struck by DU taking pains to search the whole department to find EP.

I think 'c' is also used for 'claimant' which is ...SP, right?

So serious it required a body guard to the car for safety.

But so unserious it didn't merit escalation and dealing with at midnight on the night in question.

Walked to the car. Over safety concerns.

They're all so craven I'm embarrassed for them.

I think it's just the perspective + a little AI uncanny valley.

He's slightly in the background and his lanky form is folded over in a hunched way. And look at the feet on him! Sandi is more to the the foreground and even standing looks titchy.

ETA: look at his shins there, even in the background they come up to Sandie's hip 😂

It is always Christmas in Employment Tribunal Land.

Whilst being terrified of maybe bumping into the bogieman Sandie Peggie again?

That is even more outrageous than I imagined! WTAF!

Two words come to mind: "kangaroo" and "court".

Sometimes you think something was probably awful, but you don't know the full facts, so you keep an open mind.
Then you get the full facts and you realise that it was 100xworse than you imagined.
Like this email.

Probably pulled a hankie out of his sleeve (embroidered and scented) and held it delicately to his face as the tears rolled down ladylike-ly as he had his hand patted with a 'I know, I know, you poor thing'. Then was escorted to his car and told to 'have a lovely evening and don't think about it'.

Whereas if Sandie had been upset, I'm fairly sure she'd have been told by the same person to pull herself together and get on with it. No soothing voice and hankies handed to her.

How differently women and men pretending to be women are treated...

Really awful email to send

with no proof either