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Original poster

NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #29

1000 replies

nauticant · 16/07/2025 20:46

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

OP posts:

Thread gallery

TwiceForLunch · 16/07/2025 20:54

checking in

Original poster

nauticant · 16/07/2025 20:56

Witnesses in the hearing so far with skeleton chronology:

Monday, 3 February 2025
Sandie Peggie

Tuesday, 4 February 2025
Sandie Peggie

Wedneday, 5 February 2025
Sandie Peggie
Maya Forstater
Mr Peggie (Sandie Peggie's husband)
Nicole Peggie (Sandie Peggie's daughter)

Thursday, 6 February 2025
a row about disclosure particularly over BMA documents
Sheila Bell (Sandie Peggie's mum)
Beth Upton

Friday, 7 February 2025
very late start, massive row over disclosure, agreed that Beth Upton would start giving evidence on Monday

Monday 10 February 2025
Beth Upton

Tuesday 11 February 2025
Beth Upton
collapse of public access

Wednesday 12 February 2025
Beth Upton

Thursday 13 February 2025
Esther Davidson

Friday 14 February 2025
Esther Davidson

a break of many months

Wednesday 16 July 2025
Isla Bumba

Thursday 17 July 2025
Gillian Malone (TBC)

OP posts:

Haulage · 16/07/2025 20:58

O my god, my eyes can’t read quickly enough to catch up! 😮

Original poster

nauticant · 16/07/2025 21:03

For anyone following Tribunal Tweets, this is their list of abbreviations used:

C/SP - Claimant, Sandy Peggie
NC - Naomi Cunningham, C’s barrister
MG - Margaret Gribbons, C’s solicitor
R1/Board - first respondent, Fife Health Board
R2/DU - second respondent, Dr B Upton
JR - Jane Russell, KC, barrister for Rs
AW - Adam Watson, solicitor for Rs
J - Employment Judge Alexander Kemp
ET - Employment Tribunal
P1, P2 - additional panel members
CR - changing room
AE - Accident & emergency department
B&H - bullying and harassment
SocMed - social media
SM - Sex Matters
HR - Human Rights
TW - Transwoman
HI - hate incident
PCP - provision, criteria or practice is a rule/policy/ practice that can put ppl at a disadvantage based on certain characteristics. The term is used in employment law to assess whether an employers actions create different outcomes for employees based on their characteristics.
KS - Kate Searle, DU's supervisor and A&E consultant
ED - Esther Davidson, SP’s line manager
IB - Isla Bumba
SF - Stuart Fraser, SP’s RCN Rep
AG - Angela Glancy, headed up SP's investigation
IX - investigation
CX or FC - (formal) complaint
DX - disciplinary
FtP - fitness to practice

OP posts:

BoreOfWhabylon · 16/07/2025 21:16

Breathless placemark

Original poster

nauticant · 16/07/2025 21:17

Anyone who has been following this will be aware of the incredible work Tribunal Tweets have been doing, especially after livestreaming was ended for most of the observers. Added to this, it seems they've managed the fight the corner for continuing public access very effectively.

For anyone looking to provide financial assistance to a group involved in this clash between women's rights and gender ideology, Tribunal Tweets would be a good cause. As far as I know the way to do that is to subscribe to their Substack, I don't think that one-off donations can be made. If I'm wrong on that, please correct me.

OP posts:

littlbrowndog · 16/07/2025 21:34

Thank you all. Great read. And to TT
am also flabbergasted by a grown woman saying she didn’t know what sex she was as non one had done her chromosomes.

jezz her mum her dad her brothers her sisters her aunties her uncles

indeed we are all just wandering about with no idea what sex we are

I don’t even know how my 3 kids got here if I go along with this utter stupidity

and that woman is paid a huge salary to spout shit

how the fuck did we get here and how many people in well paid positions never said this is bonkers.

were they all so frightened ?

Bannedontherun · 16/07/2025 21:48

😀

Binglebong · 16/07/2025 22:24

Since people keep raising chromosome not being known as the ultimate gotcha, has it ever been asked if someone shown to have male chromosome sould be kept out of the female SSS?

Apocalypselastyear · 16/07/2025 22:34

Placemarked

ExitPursuedByABare · 16/07/2025 22:44

Signing in for another fun packed day.

Thanks @nauticant

UnlimitedBacon · 16/07/2025 22:46

She’s got a degree in immunology hasn’t she? I think biology is fairly important for that! What and embarrassingly stinking pile of shit she spouted today! Although it did name me chuckle when she said “…TW are different from other men in the level of threat they present..” I mean…oops!! 😂😬🙄😱

KnottyAuty · 16/07/2025 22:50

littlbrowndog · 16/07/2025 21:34

Thank you all. Great read. And to TT
am also flabbergasted by a grown woman saying she didn’t know what sex she was as non one had done her chromosomes.

jezz her mum her dad her brothers her sisters her aunties her uncles

indeed we are all just wandering about with no idea what sex we are

I don’t even know how my 3 kids got here if I go along with this utter stupidity

and that woman is paid a huge salary to spout shit

how the fuck did we get here and how many people in well paid positions never said this is bonkers.

were they all so frightened ?

🤣🤣🤣

hollyblueivy · 16/07/2025 22:50

I can’t believe how quick that has gone from
the hearings in February to now. It felt so far away when the hearings stopped.

334bu · 16/07/2025 22:51

Scottish Press definitely having a field day with this. The Herald online has four out of the first five articles on its front page reporting on this case. Sunlight ☀️☀️

murasaki · 16/07/2025 22:52

UnlimitedBacon · 16/07/2025 22:46

Well she's right re the difference of level of threat if you take the stat of percentage of tw in prison for sexual offences, higher than those other men...

Greyskybluesky · 16/07/2025 22:53

hollyblueivy · 16/07/2025 22:50

I can’t believe how quick that has gone from
the hearings in February to now. It felt so far away when the hearings stopped.

Yes it seemed a long way in the future.

Think how much has changed since then! It's worth reflecting on what's happened this year so far.

PutThe · 16/07/2025 22:54

334bu · 16/07/2025 22:51

Scottish Press definitely having a field day with this. The Herald online has four out of the first five articles on its front page reporting on this case. Sunlight ☀️☀️

And they've got experienced journos covering it.

eatfigs · 16/07/2025 22:54

Did she really say "different from other men" or was that TT paraphrasing? Amazing if so, well done NC.

2021x · 16/07/2025 22:55

I have not been following this story too closely, but it sounds like a reasonable resolution is coming.

On reflection what gets my hackles up about the single/sex space part of the trans debate is that it seems that "leaders" are giving permission to men, but they haven't asked the consent of the women (or men) using the facilities.

When I go into a single sex space to undress, I have given my consent to be seen by women. I have not given my consent to be seen by men. This is because women pose very little threat to me in a state of undress compared to men.

At work there were some works being done on the floors meaning that the female toilets were going to be out of action. A survey was sent round to all the women asking if they woudl be OK to share with men for a couple of weeks. 95% said no.

Bannedontherun · 16/07/2025 23:00

I am waiting for everybody to go to bed so that i have no catch up to do tomorrow, before work.😁

RedNine · 16/07/2025 23:01

Signing in. I am not around much tomorrow so will be playing catch up. Thank you all.

ThreeWordHarpy · 16/07/2025 23:02

I’ve posted on previous threads about DH gradually getting interested in the hearing, helped by him being Scottish. Today he even told me Isla’s name and job! I use him as my barometer of general public opinion as someone interested in current affairs but not immersed in this topic.

Anyway, after the relatively accurate reporting on the BBC news at six we briefly discussed what I’d learned here and on TT. He asked -how did Sandie know that DrU is a transwoman and not a woman, because from the photos he’s seen he wouldn’t immediately think “man”.

I told him it was blinking obvious if you had seen a video of him moving, and described when I saw him give evidence. Plus Sandie is a very experienced nurse so well versed in differences in anatomy between men and women. He accepted that quite happily, but it does show that if you rely on mainstream media that you don’t necessarily get the full story.

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 16/07/2025 23:10

Wonderful chat today wims, look forward to it all again tomorrow. Goodnight all

SidewaysOtter · 16/07/2025 23:10

Looking at the job description document from the previous thread (which has been archived, good work whoever did that!), there's an awful lot of "leading" as well as requirements for knowledge of various bits of equality legislation, none of which appears to have been borne out by today's hearing. And, given the experience requirements, I'm really rather surprised that this role went to someone who'd been a bartender and a contract tracer. WTF went on with that hiring decision?

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