NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #30

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25
Thread 26: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5335861-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-26
Thread 27: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5372582-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-27
Thread 28: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5374630-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-28
Thread 29: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5374921-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-29

Just had to put this description of Upton in:
' a bully with the swagger of a tomcat. He thought he was untouchable, presenting himself as part of an apparently vulnerable minority granted him unchecked power to push through demands. '
from the new article by Jo Bartosch
thecritic.co.uk/the-sandie-peggie-case-has-exposed-the-grim-dynamics-of-the-gender-wars/

Well that is secondary evidence, probably not needed because she had already been, drum roll please unkind. We all know women are nice and kind and fluffy, nurses doubly so, so the only possible explanation is she's a witch. No need to see her safely back to her broomstick car. Oh no actually work she was just starting a into to Christmas morning shift.

T'is a hobby of sorts, but also brings in some cash. This one is off to an auction house tomorrow for a valuation and I can't take it in all filthy. Coming up beautifully with a bit of effot but my fingers are cramping. I'm using angry energy from the ET!

Another thing that occurs to me is that it's the Xmas Eve night shift. I've been in A&E on Xmas eve (escorting a colleague who'd been attacked in the pub I was working in) and it was CARNAGE.

And yet EP and DU spent 30mins talking about his hurty feelings and with the walk to the car I am prepared to bet EP was out of action for at least an hour, and sent DU home. So that's one doctor down, and the head of A&E AWOL for an hour, on one of the busiest nights of the year. So much for a focus on patients.

The psychology behind it all fascinates me. One narcissistic man commands and controls a harem of compliant women, willing to sacrifice themselves to "protect" him from imaginary harm. A mutual exchange of external validation all round. It's amazing.

So EP had been made aware that there was discontent about a man in the female changing room, I'm sure she know who had made complaints.

No for one second did it enter her head that a nurse who had twice previously reported upset about this situation would now also be quite upset or god forbid very very very very very very very sad.

SO ANGRY

Go NC. We are here for it.

It came up in evidence in the first round of the Trib that it was known by some? many? all who looked at him? colleagues [and patients I bet!] that DrU was a transperson. He did not pass. ¡No pasarán! or in this case ¡No pasó!

That's not NC is it?

I think the trouble can be that people are so used to the saccharine that they interpret anything different as 'shouting' even if the voice is never raised, and saying anything not hedged around by politesse is read as aggression. Obviously we are all likely to understand things differently in the light of our different experience, and of course one has to be sensitive to how one might come across to those who are different to us - I suppose my question is why does that only ever seem to go one way? Why does no-one ever sit the smirking gurners down and say to them 'look you are giving half your staff the heebiejeebies because you just come across as so unbelieveably fake, insincere and disingenuous'?

They were both finished their shifts. SP however was still working.

Oh, isn’t it?

Charlotte Elves, not NC

It's Charlotte Elves

In no universe would this happen for a female doctor.

its quite stunning how obviously DU gets the special treatment.

So two options here.

It didn't happen. Or it did.

I don't know which is worse: they are both really bad.

I think it's Charlotte Elves.

@ickky the complainant may not have just been Sandie at that time. In earlier evidence we heard there were several nurses upset, and waiting outside if he was in the changing room. But only Sandie made a formal complaint (understandably given Upton's power) and she wasn't allowed to discuss it with the other nurses to get a group complaint in, like the Darlington nurses did.

She was silenced- Upton got all the senior staff onside with his 'version' of events.

THIS, THIS, SO MUCH THIS!

It's precisely because he's a man that Fife has to pretzel itself explaining why it's OK for him to be in there. It's the same for all cases involving men in female spaces. It's because they are men that the case exists.

And the way they threw Sandie under the bus while protecting and coddling and favouring Upton definitely shows that they know who's the man and who's the woman.

Yes I noticed she was listed, and asked upthread if she would be x-examining.
Her chance to shine

Early Career Lawyer C Elves is having a more impressive early career media exposure experience than Dr Upton, that's for sure!

Does Datix have a 'cornered by logic' category?

Oooh, they took sides right from the off! Condemning Sandie out of the gate.

JR - shut up.

😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡