NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #30

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25
Thread 26: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5335861-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-26
Thread 27: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5372582-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-27
Thread 28: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5374630-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-28
Thread 29: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5374921-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-29

Bum, forgot about that.

Slightly disingenuous given DU's conversations with the BMA.

👆

From TT

JR - what shift were you working on Christmas Eve 2023
EP - I was the oncall consultant, clinical work until midnight, then handed over to
nightshift team and then was home but on call for emergencies.
JR - interview w AG, remind yourself of it, you describe being approached by DU at the end of your shift, did you witness the incident
EP - no I did not
JR - when did DU come to speak to you
EP - about midnight that's as accurate as I can be, that's the time I was getting ready to leave
JR - where did convo take place
EP - in the back corridor, away from clinical part of dept, staff room, wellbeing room, store rooms, met DU there as I was leaving
JR - where is the back corridor in relation to f cr
EP - two parts to back corridor, through another set of swipe doors, to the CR,
JR - how long to walk from CR to where you encountered DU
EP - 30 secs
JR - what sort of state was DU in
EP - looked very shaken and visibly upset

Fifer : Loddie's no even bothert es airse tae get a five poond "loddie's a lassie noo" ticket and he's upset that he canny use the lassie's changin room. I mean yev got tae ask, how no jist get yer ticket son?

To be accurate I think it was Kate Searle who emailed the consultant group. DU emailed a different group of mostly admin people, including the person supposed to be leading the investigation. If I recall right.

We've been awfully good about it overall, haven't we?

How can you tell they are female is they aren't wearing pink scrubs. I'm sure this was part of Dr U's reasoning - pink scrubs for a laydee.

Yes, we have. Well done everybody.

a five poond "loddie's a lassie noo" ticket
😂

Just saw the first "I don't remember" on TT - Is ten minutes a record?

Right I'm retiring to the floor to clean that antique. I obviously can't be trusted near the keyboard...

Raspberry scrubs if I recall correctly.

I've got a Prince earworm now.

From TT

JR - how could you tell, what were the signifiers
EP - her demeanour was different from what it had been earlier in shift, looked quite pale, hyper aware,looked a little bit startled
JR - document, email copied to you on Xmas Day at 5:30,
EP - I have read it, don't remember when I saw it
JR - why did DU communicate to you
EP - Dr U knew I was going to contact KS, because I had said I would email
JR - read page 271, <EP reading> can you give the Tribunal your best recollection of what DU told you had happened in the back corridor
EP - we had moved into the wellbeing room, I let DU speak, I felt my role was to listen, she said that there had been a very upsetting interaction, can't remember exact details of what was said to her, but that she was very fearful and had felt cornered,
J (Big Sond)- can i catch up

Fifer : aye ye micht act surprised that thon 6 fit twa long shanks Doctor was feart ay Wee Sondie. To be fair we've all felt that. She's no tae be messed wi I'll tell ye that gratis for free. Could have ye greetin for yer maw wi hauf a look, ken.

Oh good, something to replace my current
'It was Christmas evening, in the drunk tank' earworm!

I thought they only couldn't recall in response to NC, not JR.

Sounds as if DU could also have been angry or frustrated given that description.

The best macaroni pies are from Baynes bakers!
baynes.co.uk/product/macaroni-pie/

I wonder how legions of female nurses/doctors who have been dressed down, condescended to, shouted at and been made to feel crap, and then sucked it up and went home, are viewing this man baby scuttling to mummy to tell on nasty Sandie who quite rightly objected to him being in the female changing room.

"Can't remember what was said, just got upset".

Was it the word "No" by any chance?

It's probably a good thing we can't comment on this witness's testimony. Mind you I'm not sure my response could even be technically described as commentary.

<sits on hands> but ffs

Nope, 1 changing area for any staff. Theatre staff & ITU would have their own area but that's so it's near where they work and keeps scrubs cleaner, medics & nurses would use same changing room. Burns units are even stricter for obvious reasons (burns = huge risk of infection).
Never worked in oncology wards but I imagine they are also strict and have own facilities.
Can be very grotty inadequate places depending on the age of building.
Porters and housekeeping often have their own break rooms but that's all variable depending on the building & size of teams.

Shocked and startled by the hearing the unaccustomed word No?

Re Cholesterol on a plate:
Do you have an artizan version of Macrogol?

To be clear, the evidence is that immediately after the interaction DU told this witness he couldn’t remember what had been said to him in the CR?

Amazing how his memory improved later then, isn’t it?