NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #30

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25
Thread 26: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5335861-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-26
Thread 27: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5372582-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-27
Thread 28: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5374630-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-28
Thread 29: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5374921-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-29

Morning all 👋

I read there is doctor’s ‘mess’ next to A&E with lockable cubicles that the rest of the doctors use.

To be fair I expect you need to be good at inane chat whilst waiting as you can’t discuss the case, you don’t want to get into a discussion you need to think about and you need to be ready to go when the judge appears.

I had my first ever deep fried mars bar in Malmö during Eurovision. They had lots of street food stalls at the official fan village which were themed along the lines of national cuisine.

Trying to explain why the Irish themed bar serving Deep Fried Mars Bars as Irish food was 'slightly controversial' and probably should have been questioned by the Swedish organisers to my Dutch friend was amusing.

It was nice though.

Almost like the Bridget Jones of the Barrister world

Witnesses today are expected to be Elspeth Pitt, A&E consultant and Louise Curran, senior charge nurse A&E.
EP - Elspeth Pitt LC - Louise Curran CE - Charlotte Elves, junior barrister for C.

From TT.

In the NHS depts I've worked in, more senior doctors have changed elsewhere but typically because they have access to offices or rest rooms that nurses don't. Not because the changing rooms were segregated by profession. I have mostly changed with other (female) nurses but our shift times all align whereas the medical staff arrive and leave on a different set of times.

There would be no issue with a female member of staff of any colour scrubs being in the female changing room.

But that would have male doctors in it. He couldn't possibly be expected to use that, could he? After all, he's a .... Oh.

The trouble at the heart of this is an unwillingness to grasp Sandie's particular discomfort that Christmas Eve. Anyone who has experienced menstrual flooding in a public space will be there with her in that changing room. Bad enough if you are not working in a busy environment. Other reasons may have come into it but that should be sufficient - a basic right to wash, change clothes, replace sanitary products in a clean safe environment.

A lot of she-ing going on, according to TT. Wonder how that will pan out when NC starts with the correct pronouns.

Look here the noo : I like what I like and I like carbs in fat wrapped in carbs n fat

I've always wondered why government, DEI, police et al. settled on the term umbrella term 'Hate'

Seems an odd choice given its history

Here’s the original ‘Two Minutes Hate’ - Intellectual Takeout

When will it be 'Beth' rather than DrU I wonder?

A council chief executive in a London Borough close to me has just been let go, after two years in post, with a payoff rumoured to be close to £250,000 quid. This is the sixth chief executive this council has had in the last seven or eight years.

It's such a good lesson into how effective forcing people to use preferred pronouns and names can be. Like yesterday when GM used "Beth" all the time.

It really helps obfuscate the issues, even written down.

Mmmm, a cheesy macaroni brick - breakfast of champions!

Brushes crumbs

From TT

Judge (Big Sond) and Panel arrive.

Judge taking EP through formalities. Completed.
J - I take notes by hand, quite slowly.
JR - name Elspeth Pitt
JR - how long at Fife,
EP - since Nov 2020.
JR - job title
EP - consultant, emergency medicine
JR what does your role involve
EP mostly seeing undifferentiated patients who arrive at the ED with all conditions, etc, and I supervise the clinical team doing that. I have a role in dept, running dept, supervising junior drs.
JR - undifferentiated?
EP - seeing anyone who arrives
JR - when did you first meet DU
EP - when she first arrived at the dept
JR - what was your r'ship
EP - acting as clinical supervisor, overseeing work
JR - what is an early career dr
EP - that's because I'm an old career dr, many of our early career drs are in the 1st 5 years of career
JR - when did you meet SP & your r'ship
EP - meet her at the same time, and r'ship was professional
JR - document, yr interview with AG, Q2, you describe an induction, what does that involve
EP - when drs all change around, they get a hosp induction and a dept induction. They get a intro to processes and policies both admin and medical.
JR - when did DU get that induction
EP - August 2023

JR - when did you meet SP & your r'ship
EP - meet her at the same time, and r'ship was professional

EP met SP, who had been at the hosp for yonks, and DrU who was new, 'at the same time?' That doesn't make sense.

They promote Newspeak, doublethink and thoughtcrime and alter records to suit whatever reality is chosen today. This is 100% consistent.

The only difference really is that they appear to be the ones now telling everyone to do it to Julia. "She's Spartacus!"

A lack of self awareness and ignorance of culture (transactivists)

Verses

A massive awareness of human nature and the culture of ignorance (Orwell)

Orwell saw them coming, rather than them having the knowledge of Orwell and therefore demonstrating their ignorance.

It's long been known that everyone has their own political blind spots. The most politically astute work to identify theirs and understand their weaknesses. The problem with intellectual types is the tendency to be arrogant and think they know everything when they do not.

Orwell just knew this.

AHH well at we can now be full confident JR is a woman. Talking about makeup and shopping definitely female. At least that one more person who is certain of their sex. Phew.

Please don't comment if you're observing directly.

Dilated pupils can also be a sign of arousal, too.