NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #30

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25
Thread 26: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5335861-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-26
Thread 27: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5372582-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-27
Thread 28: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5374630-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-28
Thread 29: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5374921-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-29

Good morning lovelies. Charged 2 phones and my laptop, ready to sit in a singular position to read today's TT at least until school pick up.

Packet of biscuits bought for sustenance and cups lined up by the kettle for a continuous stream of tea.

Never been more organised in my life.

Aye le vieux alliance c'est tres bonnie!

thanks as ever @Justabaker to you and the others at TT. I've been cribbing your homework all day yesterday (and plan to repeat it today all being well). Mon the TT!

The suspension decision is totally suss. ED couldn’t remember if she had written the RA. GM could not recall if she had read the RA but was adamant that the decision was a sound one. And I believe HR were being given a stiff ignoring due to inconveniently not giving the ‘right’ sort of advice.

BIG thank you to @nauticant@BezMillsand @Justabaker for all your hard work bringing this to life in real time for so many of us. Hopefully there’s thousands quietly reading this thread

yes I respect that, and I appreciate the thanks anyway!

You do get a thread reader app unroll at the end of every session, so you could read the TT that way every couple hours, if it's not convenient for you to read them live.

I will pick up again today, at least in the morning.

I'm getting my TT from here (nitter mirror) https://lightbrd.com/tribunaltweets - you don't need a twitter account

Whew, it a rollercoaster catching up with TT and then zipping over here for the commentary.

i had a quiet little cheer myself when i read the tweet with Peter’s reappearance!

On the Drs changing room issue, ISTR that there were alternative changing rooms on a different floor, but that these weren’t really used by ED staff as it was more convenient to use the closer ones. Were the ones on the other floor designated for Drs?

Big Sond : That fuckin Pete the Plumber, he's bloody follayin me I sweer it.

I am WFH today and need to crack on. I might physically put my mobile in another room so am not tempted to look.

Thank you to tribunal tweets and all the contributors. I will see you on the other side. Or during my tea and lunch break.

I'm off out to get the eldest a new swim costume and pic up some bits for dinner.
I've done a couple of hours of work already and will do more this evening. For today's ET I will be on the floor cleaning an antique African carving that is caked in 150 years of mud and grime and getting a crick in my neck glancing up at the screen on my desk. I like to ponder what everyone else is up to as they also listen along to the fuckwittery.

Quite.

But as an aside for discussion some other time when we are not all spellbound by NC's professionalism, I am increasingly struck by the extent to which the true believers have never had to be exposed to anything outside their own bubble. In the old days when we read paper books and magazines and newspapers and had a limited number of TV channels we came into contact with many different ideas and worldviews.

We read popular fiction produced 60 or 70 years before we were born, absorbed the fact that the world is diverse. Some of the under 30s have never had to do that. No wonder they're so narrow minded.

And they never know any history, but that's a whole other rant. As I said, for another day.

Just throwing this in I am not completely comfortable disrobing in front of females so there is no way i could change clothes In front of of a man.

ERCC recruitment policy was to hire known individuals or individuals with next to no experience into certain roles including trustees.

It’s a done deal for finding yourselves in an employment tribunal and losing!

Lots of executives in NHS trusts thought they were doing their bit for DEI by hiring blue hair types to DEI and associated HR roles. They thought these roles like the women in the bikinis were who pointed to the score board and prizes in TV games shows in the 70s and 80s. They are slowly learning the cost of this way of thinking!

The two up in court today:

Sandie Peggie tribunal live: Case against NHS Fife resumes | The Herald

Today, the tribunal is expected to hear from two more NHS Fife witnesses: Dr Elspeth Pitt, Consultant in Emergency Medicine, and Louise Curran, Senior Charge Nurse.

Early on in the case, I think it was established that the proper A&E changing rooms were down a floor (in the basement), but everybody just used the locker-room next to A&E because it was closer.

On X, somebody stated that there was also a Drs restroom downstairs (with sofas/fridge/microwave etc), but I don’t think they hung around long enough to answer whether there were changing facilities just for Drs down there.

Somebody found a floorplan of A&E (from a treasurehunt for new Drs?) back in the spring.

Brilliant! I was in holiday for the first few days of this tribunal and was thoroughly distracted away from the Roman exhibits I was supposed to be enjoying. But Sandie and Naomi are Goddesses...

Doing post holiday washing today and so looking forward to following along.

They are under instruction not to read news and SM about the case so if they are following that instruction they shouldn’t know. If they are not following the instruction they are pretending not to know and that would be a complicated position to maintain but it might explain why GM is hedging her bets around concerns for patient care — she didn’t know/ can’t recall/ wasn’t involved but has some vague recollection of concerns over patient safety.

Alas still working today but as it's Friday I'm WFH so hoping to do some sneaky checks to find out what's going on.

Interested to hear from these named witnesses today.

Exactly. GM was asked to pick out which bit of the whole interaction she thought was the worst bit and she picked this. The fact that SP repeatedly articulated her discomfort and intimidation and asked BU to leave her alone!

Imagine being so closed to any alternative pov that you don't also see that as a cornered woman, desperate for privacy and almost begging to be given some privacy.

That's "the worst" thing SP did.

It's a dystopian nightmare.

It's hard not to be aware of some things to be fair. If you're walking down the corner shop for rolls and the Daily Ranger has a headline board outside "Trans Row Nurse Cleared In Misconduct Investigation" you can't help that.

PMK

I've said it before but I'll say it again, this was always going to be their downfall. Their biggest mistake was 'no debate' because it meant the TRAs a) never heard or had the chance to consider the key arguments against them and b) had absolutely no idea of the scale and strength of objection. Completely agree that wider cultural changes fed into this too. We have access to more information than ever but that also means we can, and to an extent have to, filter it, so it is easy to get yourself into an echo chamber. I know some might say that's exactly what these boards are but I think we do our best here to use reason and logic, to ask to understand and to challenge respectfully. There are clear examples of all those things throughout these threads.

Can someone confirm whether there was or was not a Risk Assessment document produced? And when.