NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #30

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25
Thread 26: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5335861-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-26
Thread 27: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5372582-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-27
Thread 28: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5374630-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-28
Thread 29: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5374921-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-29

BezMills · Today 21:11
Shifty look
I was serving my community! Je nae regrette eh hen.

SternJoyousBee · Today 21:40
Je ne dinae ken pas

Nice to see the Auld Alliance still influence language 730 years later😄

Oh I can well believe it is real, and she has no chance of stopping it. The same irreverent humour being responsible for the Duke of Wellington’s accessory that get replaced every time it’s removed.

There was I think a Jackie who asked some reasonable questions about what the actual risks of SP continuing to work were and suggested that the risk could be managed without suspension. She also asked or mooted that the alleged risk or concern was that SP would treat a trans patient badly in the basis of her alleged behaviour toward BU, and in not sure that anyone clarified to her that that wasn't why there were suspending her. Not sure if the patient safety allegations had been mentioned at that point but they weren't shared with her.

https://x.com/DarcyWAHF/status/1945933693328957912

This is VERY interesting!

Love this

https://x.com/MrMalky/status/1945917397635932589

Blimey! Is that true for sure?
The doctors changing room I mean.

If so, that's pretty bad. Inserting yourself into a room reserved for staff perceived as less important on two levels.

This is unbelievable -

NC - so if I ask you to pick out the worst thing, what is it
GM - she keeps telling Beth that she finds him intimidating and keeps repeating that

I wonder if as a relatatively junior doctor he wasn't prepared to go into battle with more senior female doctors but nurses were fair game.

Random question - who is IB’s line manager?

I can barely believe this is still going

what the actual fuck am I reading?!

is there anyone who is willing to comment on what the hell NHS Fife’s litigation strategy is and hazard a guess as to why they haven’t withdrawn their response and are still defending this? Their own witnesses are bloody awful!

How can IB not know if she’s female but is so sure DU is just by him declaring it?

I seriously cannot with the fucking stupidity of these people

Afraid not, from Tribunal Tweets recollection Dr Upton was in there with other doctors:

Apart from SP have felt respected as a TW
JR: incident on August ?? Who was there first
DU: Me, was getting changed for a day shift
JR: Anyone else there
DU: Registrar

DU: SP, I entered with a consultant, we were making idle chat, 7:50 AM ish
JR: Did you notice what the claimant was doing or wearing
DU: No, don't tend to notice what they are wearing

Might have been technically nurses idk but clearly used by both.

Ah, ok.

I suspect the Fife Board has put their witnesses on the stand to audition them. The worst performers get sacked and scapegoated. Meanwhile the Board had 16 days to draw atraws to see which of them gets to stay or go.

I can't imagine that NC or the solicitor are spending so much time on this for nothing.

Sandie gave away the funds that had been raised for her.
I thank God for Sandies strength and determination and her Fairygod mother backer!

It was Melanie Jorgenson who described the situation as ludicrous. Plus one other who is unnamed but replied along similar lines

While potentially blood is dripping down her legs and she is just desperate to have some privacy to change?

ED doing research was a tactical error on her part. She should have insisted that IB put that advice in writing in the absence of any other policy. IB avoided committing to anything formal and appeared to be a right slippery one yesterday. But you can’t take a “lead” job and duck responsibility- that’s what she’s paid for…

😲 That really is silly money 💰
I can't imagine how much this is costing.

I assume different barristers charge different prices. I really can't imagine NC is cheap to get on board, not that £1600 an hour is cheap.

NHS Fife really weren't thinking they'd end up being in court with a top barrister.

You’ve basically asked all the same questions that Scotgov asked NHS Fife after Part 1. Namely - what the hell were you thinking letting this get to Tribunal stage?!?!

It’s infathomable - or incompetence. I’ll let you decide!

JR only has damage limitation now. It’s looking bad for DU & Fife

It seems not, but one of the strange things about this case is that it feels more 2019 than 2023.

Everything happened post Forstater, post Haldane, post Isla Bryson and the related political fall out for Sturgeon - but apparently NHS Fife hadn’t noticed any of this.

I would have thought it was part of IB's job to keep abreast of any tribunals, court cases, political issues etc related to any category that might fall under the EDI remit. Just as basic non official cpd.

Thank you, much appreciated.

What the Actual Fuck?

Who's going to be Naomied into spitting that out in court?

Its absolutely mind boggling.