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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #30

1000 replies

nauticant · 17/07/2025 15:39

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25
Thread 26: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5335861-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-26
Thread 27: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5372582-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-27
Thread 28: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5374630-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-28
Thread 29: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5374921-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-29

OP posts:
Thread gallery
23
afuckinggoat · 17/07/2025 21:02

I've submitted a complaint about this article for reasons of bias.
Probably won't be upheld but I want my voice heard nonetheless.
The fact that the headline is presenting the erroneous opinion of Gillian Malone as a statement of fact is a wild misrepresentation of the actual outcome of today's evidence.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g2xz2wwwwo.amp

Talkinpeace · 17/07/2025 21:04

The judge (like Linzi's) has the measure of the situation.

The only decision now is whether to award costs as well as exemplary damages

And how much fun Naomi has in her closing speech

Needspaceforlego · 17/07/2025 21:04

SqueakyDinosaur · 17/07/2025 20:20

Yes, I get that, but if Fife offered, say, £3m with an NDA and SP turned it down BECAUSE of there being an NDA, would the judge have to take the £3m offer into consideration when thinking about compensation? Or would there need to be an offer not tied to an NDA for the judge to consider?

No the Judge would make their own assessment rather than look at any offers. The Judge probably doesn't know if any offers have been made.

OhBuggerandArse · 17/07/2025 21:06

Talkinpeace · 17/07/2025 21:04

The judge (like Linzi's) has the measure of the situation.

The only decision now is whether to award costs as well as exemplary damages

And how much fun Naomi has in her closing speech

I don't think we should be over-confident about the judge. His judgement of Gillian Philip's case went the other way.

https://x.com/GillianPhilip/status/1940520334492684610

https://x.com/Gillian_Philip/status/1940520334492684610

Boiledbeetle · 17/07/2025 21:07

At what point in her summing up I wonder is Naomi going to come out with "of course all this is irrelevant as he hasn't got a GRC, it's been purely on self ID, therefore he is a man man not even a man with a special piece of paper telling him he's a woman man.

He's basically Pete the plumber and should be on a gross misconduct charge for sexual harassment against every woman in Fife hospital that used that changing room and you should be falling over yourselves to apologise to Sandie"

Or if they aren't even going to bother as there is enough other crap to bury Fife.

Talkinpeace · 17/07/2025 21:07

@OhBuggerandArse
Times change

OhBuggerandArse · 17/07/2025 21:07

Talkinpeace · 17/07/2025 21:07

@OhBuggerandArse
Times change

hope so.

BezMills · 17/07/2025 21:11

Boiledbeetle · 17/07/2025 20:49

I assumed was funny, after all a lot of have been sat on our arses all day ignoring the work we were supposed to be doing.

Shifty look

I was serving my community! Je nae regrette eh hen.

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 17/07/2025 21:15

Boiledbeetle · 17/07/2025 20:49

I assumed was funny, after all a lot of have been sat on our arses all day ignoring the work we were supposed to be doing.

I have been trying to keep up today while my arse has not been firmly plonked anywhere for 2 minutes... but I have reserved the whole day for arse plonking tomorrow simply to keep up with this thread.

Needspaceforlego · 17/07/2025 21:16

OhBuggerandArse · 17/07/2025 21:07

hope so.

And even if they don't I'm sure Sandie has the willpower and her fairygod mother the finances to go that step further to the court of appeal!

spannasaurus · 17/07/2025 21:19

I do wonder how many other Sandie Peggies there have been who haven't had any backing to fight back

Bannedontherun · 17/07/2025 21:22

I think it is clear from the defence witnesses thus far that it was an incredibly hostile environment for even the most tolerant women not buying in to gender woo.

SternJoyousBee · 17/07/2025 21:24

Jaws2025 · 17/07/2025 20:33

I can't tell if you're being funny or rude!

I have spent all day sitting on my arse following this thread…so take your pick 😉

Redshoeblueshoe · 17/07/2025 21:25

I wonder how many of these women - who don't know what sex they are have pronouns in their bio's, emails ?

Talkinpeace · 17/07/2025 21:26

Needspaceforlego · 17/07/2025 21:16

And even if they don't I'm sure Sandie has the willpower and her fairygod mother the finances to go that step further to the court of appeal!

Could somebody clarify ?

Naomi is doing this case pro bono.
What would the 'fairy godmother' be about
bearing in mind that this case long predated JKR's promise ?

ExitPursuedByABare · 17/07/2025 21:28

Who ever it is thank goodness for them.

GetDressedYouMerryGentlemen · 17/07/2025 21:29

Redshoeblueshoe · 17/07/2025 21:25

I wonder how many of these women - who don't know what sex they are have pronouns in their bio's, emails ?

AHH that's simple pronouns aren't sex based are they? They are all about the feelz. Wanting to be called she/her doesn't require one to be a she just to knock your ruby heels together and declare it so.

Talkinpeace · 17/07/2025 21:29

Sandie lodged the claim.
Only she can close the case

(been there, done that)

GetDressedYouMerryGentlemen · 17/07/2025 21:30

Talkinpeace · 17/07/2025 21:26

Could somebody clarify ?

Naomi is doing this case pro bono.
What would the 'fairy godmother' be about
bearing in mind that this case long predated JKR's promise ?

Sandie has an unnamed backer financing the case on her behalf.

Igneococcus · 17/07/2025 21:31

Talkinpeace · 17/07/2025 21:29

Sandie lodged the claim.
Only she can close the case

(been there, done that)

Yeah, I don't think the SG could end this trial even if they'd want to adn I suspect they desperately want it to go away at this point.

SternJoyousBee · 17/07/2025 21:31

NebulousDogWhistleIsReality · 17/07/2025 20:50

😂

Me and you both! 😳😂

By the end of it I'll have left a permanent arse mark on my chair and my screen will be worn away by the furious reading and switching between tabs I'll be doing 😂

I have had to change my ‘stand’ goal on my watch iot not muck up my stats….cheating I know 🤭

LiesDoNotBecomeUs · 17/07/2025 21:31

ItsCoolForCats · 17/07/2025 17:53

That BBC headline is infuriating. Are they likely to change it if enough of us complain?

Edited for typo

Edited

I have sent in my first ever complaint to the BBC. If a student wrote that headline for the article - they would certainly have lost many marks for mis-representing the rest of the article -and for lack of neutrality.

It mis-represented the rest of the day in court and it gave huge weight to the words of an accuser who was not even present during the incident.

Peregrina · 17/07/2025 21:31

I wonder how many of these women - who don't know what sex they are have pronouns in their bio's, emails ?

I recollect from the Isla Bumba's CV that someone posted a day or two ago, that Isla was a "she/her".

This is puzzling when she didn't know.

Talkinpeace · 17/07/2025 21:32

GetDressedYouMerryGentlemen · 17/07/2025 21:30

Sandie has an unnamed backer financing the case on her behalf.

To do what ?
I've been through an ET.
I paid my solicitor and costed up barristers.

NC is pro bono.
Solicitors work is 99% done and 5% of barristers normally

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