NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #9

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8

Jesus, he's giving the judge a lecture now on different kinds of sex.

I'd be really, really unhappy seeing a doctor who thinks biological sex is a nebulous term that doesn't mean anything. I don't believe him. I cannot believe a doctor who is confronted with a female patient with abdominal pain thinks her sex is entirely irrelevant and nebulous to her condition.

Fairly sure there's a bloody tight link between primary sex characteristics and reproductive sex.

Unless of course Upton thinks you can grow a baby in a penis.

please someone ask him that.

How does he know who the men are?

Did someone in the room laugh out loud when he said that?!

I'm not sure. I thought someone had broken down

I don't blame them

I'm off work this afternoon and want to watch/listen but that link isn't working for me (the edinburgh one). Can someone please confirm link? TIA

You're talking to someone in the medical profession ...

Can we call Dr Winston to the witness box please?

WTAF

I thought you meant Winston in 1984 for a minute but you mean Prof Robert Winston

And how many of these sexes does the NHS record when people walk through the door to A&E.

They have 2 boxes relating to sex. Male and female.

‘I don’t recognise gender critical views’

Tough they’re WORIADS in law

’I don’t recognise biological sex’ bla bla bla …there are sex hormones, reproductive sex, cultural/assumed sex, chromosomal sex, genital sex. Thing is, under all of those HES A MAN!!

I think he’s insane!!

A nebulous dog whistle!

'I am so much more cleverer than all the stupid people in this room who think biological sex has meaning'

There is an agreed definition of biological sex, you just don't like it DrU

'nebulous dogwhistle' FML

"Dogwhistle"

BINGO!

Judge asks for slower account:

BU - nobody can accurately define biolgoical sex. Sex characteristics have a number of different spectra ...we'd have to explore, primary sex characteristicsm secondary sex characteristics,reproductive sex, endocrine sex, sex hormones, we could enfold societal cultural or assumed sex, chromosomal sex

'door squeaks'

genital sex; not all of those things are continguent or concordant with the other. Not anybody = I'm in the medical profession, aware of biological make up implications, as a trans person aware of implications of biological make up, v few peopel who don't think understanding some aspect of bioligcal sex important in some situations, but biological sex is nebulous'

He's dictating to the judge the list of reasons why biological sex is a nebulous dogwhistle 😂 Surely the judge is just going to think WTF??

I can't believe that J is seriously writing this guff down

Biological sex is a nebulous dog whistle.

NC allowed a very long pause there :)

Oh man, can you imagine what his parents are experiencing here? Cringe.

Who uses terms like cis and gender identity!

My God!

So biological sex doesn't mean anything but gender identity is rock solid and real.

How are these people not just laughed at? How did anyone ever take this shite seriously?

Biological sex is 'a nebulous dogwhistle'.

Stunned silence in court

If I ever start a band, we're going to be called Nebulous Dogwhistle.

Making babies! Yay!