NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #9

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8

JR - hasn't been put that presence of R was a distressing violation of privacy.

J - answer's been given.

DU First, I'm not a man. We've covered this several times.
Second, blah blah..

"I'm not a man."

YOU FUCKING ARE. How NC hasn't screamed this while banging her head on a wall is impressive because I'm sure my neighbours and sundry passers-by have heard me bellowing it enough today.

How is JR allowed to interrupt so much? NC didn't.

He keeps saying he's not a man but can't say anything other than 'because i said so' about why he's not a man.

I wish NC would start calling him male bodied because that's the crux of the issue.

So I'd Dr Upton presented in crippling abdominal pain, with right iliac fossa tenderness, guarding and rebound, would he like his appendix removed before it perforates, or would he prefer fannying around pretending it could be an ectopic pregnancy?

Claimant 2 is shifting the blame to Claimant 1.
JR twitchy.
Its crazy they have the same legal representation.

Barristers are paid an average of £89k a year NOT to tell buck-eejits like that to shut the fuck up

I don't think they are. On one hand he says he's trans' and talks about " his community" and also realises that " some people have an issue with trans people" but then tries to suggest he's no different to other women, because he is a woman ( he even uses terms like 'cis' to diiferntiate differentiate different categories of people).He knows he is a TW. A TW is a male person, by definition, aping a female person.

JR - I object to that question

Judge: But, we've already had the answer, Miss Russell.

'It was determined that the best place for me to change was this changing room'.

But that just isn't true. Nobody really thought about this very hard. They just went along with what he wanted.

I notice he uses the passive tense a lot. He tries to distance himself from things he actually did.

JR is obviously finding it strategic to interrupt a lot, and unfortunately the judge is quite soft touch and isn't intervening.

He’s a slippery bugger.

I want to see this question: "Which changing rooms are you using these days?"

I wish she'd also say that SP perceives him as male. Because that also is the issue.

I want him to ask why his perceptions are more important than hers to the point that she is suspended unless she complies?

You have to admire NC's self control. I'd have gone full Kat Slater long ago.

Thanks, Rethinking, yes, it was - I’ve just found it on TT.

DU - tried to find consultant on call, overnight on A_E there's a registrar in charge and a consultant on call. If not busy consultant would be resting.
DU - so I knew likely Elspeth would leave a couple of hours after starting shift.
JR - where did you find her?
DU - went round whole dept at least once, asked registrar, found her eventually and asked for a conv.
JR - where did conv happen?
DU - well being room in A+E
JR - when?
DU - 12:10 roughly
JR - how long?
DU - 10-15 mins. Hard to judge as it was stressful and upsetting.
JR - how did you feel?
DU - upset I was crying a lot and struggling to get words out. TOok time to calm down enough to relay events

I expect (hope!) NC will get round to this.

NC - you do know now that your prsenece in the CR was experienceed as a distressing violation of her privacy, because she told you so.

BU - yes

NC - And you stood your ground.

BU - when someoen makes confrotnation, compares you to a criminal, reasonable to try and defuse, make sure safe to exit situation, more appropriate to express my sorrow for her negative feelings, she should perhaps consider official channels, I was doing what I'd been advised to do, not a case she asked me to leave and I said no, I was trying to defuse a potentially [missed] situation

He's probably suggest it might be an ectopic preg as he hadn't had a period that month

In hindsight I wonder if NC should have objected more to JR's lines of x-examination of SP and her witnesses

I bet she has a punchbag in her garage. And uses it. A lot.

Her feelings are hers apparently.

His require intervention from the hierarchy.

I practically did a wee dance when she mentioned validation. Go NC!

He's already denied that he has a male body. He has said he believes he is female. Calling him male bodied won't achieve anything.

His facial expressions remind me of that Philosophy Tube guy. Same condescending tone too.