NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #9

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8

So much more telling when he's in full flow too.

Indirectly yes. He replied that if a woman had had a hysterectomy did that mean she wasn't a woman.

Validation…..!

NC on to validation from colleagues

NC - you disagree taht a locker in the corridor or somewhere else, that would have been [missed]

BU - I don't know locker availabliity for staff. Every dept has locker space as a premium, leaving aside the othering nature of everyoneknowing that's my locker in a corridor, I don't know about the locker situation availability, that's not my role

NC - what you positivley wanted was access to the women's CR. YOu said 'as a woman most appropriate was to use the women's. Not chielfly about safety and privacy but having your colleagues validate your identity'

JR - hold on, other part of answer also about lockers which are only in women's changing rooms.

If this goes as well as Upton thinks, it's plausible that Upton will be in demand as a KOL for EDI in various parts of the NHS. Upton will possibly be fending off invitations to join various boards as a NED in the near future.

Ha she's using his ' as a woman' against him!

Judge ask the question again

Validation angle nice

I think he's stood up very well so far. His answers are certainly internally consistent.

I'd like to see him pressed, as a Dr, on his belief that there is no scientific consensus as to what sex means or what distinguishes a man from a woman. At least I think that's what he said before lunch.

Also like to see him asked - again as a Dr - whether distinguishing between the two sexes is medically important (or even possible in his world view), and whether he is at risk of developing female specific conditions/diseases

NC - would it be fair to infer that your determination to use the women's CR not about having somewhere safe and private, having your colleagues validate your identity

BU - are you saying I demanded it?

Judge - just ask question again

NC re-asks

BU - no, not fair to say that

He’s gone a bit pink

Christmas Eve, iic.

Must stop looking at this thread. I've a mountain to do!

NC - no one is suggesting all TW are predators. But it's fair to say your willingness to use the women's CR even tho you know your presence is a distressing violation of privacy for some women, that fact identifies as a man who desn't much care about women's boudnaries

JR - that's not true

God JR again butting in

This isn't about safety is it, it's about your female colleagues validation of your identity

BU: No

Good that she got him.to repeat several times that there was nothing Sandie could have done that wouldn't have upset him.

@myplace

Lady pink?

“I’m not a man” again

JR - if there's evidence of more than the C objecting that needs to be put

NC - at least one of your colleauges experiences your presence as distressing, identifies you as a man who doesn't care about women's boundaries

BU - I'm not a man. Says nothing about my respoect for women's boundaries. One colleagues is uncomfortable. Most productive would have been a convesration to resolved.

I'm not a man I know we've covered this a few times but I'm not!

you keep telling yourself that no one believes you though

OMG - How is NC stopping herself from telling JR to shut the fuck up?

when a man says "I'm not a man."

Did he just say 'one of the women was upset by my control'?

Boundaries

JR is so freaking annoying. Her voice