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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 11

1002 replies

ickky · 23/05/2022 16:04

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.
You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)

To come?

Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, to continue on 25th May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge.
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
nauticant · 24/05/2022 12:03

This guy is a complete weasel.

Clymene · 24/05/2022 12:03

And then denying it. It's taking him a very long time to come up with the answer that it isn't what he meant

theemperorhasnoclothes · 24/05/2022 12:04

WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles · 24/05/2022 11:59

And of course it's not just lesbians, its all women everywhere, who have the right to say whether they want a penis anywhere near them or not.

Yes, The cotton ceiling workshop is all about the not accepting the 'no'. A clear no shouldn't be up for fucking debate and if it is that's rape culture right there. It's so bloody tiresome.

This is the culture - including the handmaidens with the whole 'oh I can't tell if the COTTON CEILING workshop is at all coercive' hand waving- in which male police officers think they can watch a female child being forcibly strip searched. Because they fucking know the legal profession will apparently protect whatever the penis wants at all costs.

Can we start a women only commune somewhere and get AB to be our Queen?

IcakethereforeIam · 24/05/2022 12:04

@ZandathePanda that's how I read it, fwiw ages before I came near MN and never had a twitter account.

Clymene · 24/05/2022 12:04

If you say chambers is at the forefront of trans rights then you have taken a view! That is not 'we haven't got a view!'

TheBiologyStupid · 24/05/2022 12:04

Did TW just simultaneously deny and accept that there is a chambers view on trans rights?

Penguintears · 24/05/2022 12:05

TW is not coming across well is he? Seems angry, aggressive and hostile.

BC remains calm and polite.

IdisagreeMrHochhauser · 24/05/2022 12:05

TW is an unfortunate set of initials. Think I'll call him ToW.

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 24/05/2022 12:05

Well. I am learning a lot about my embodied experience of disliking people! The irritation I feel at this dude is like a crawly, tingly sensation over the surface of my skin, whereas that awful cotton ceiling woman was making me tense my jaw and my fists.

I don't think I've ever disliked so many people in different ways one right after the other like this.

WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles · 24/05/2022 12:06

TheBiologyStupid · 24/05/2022 12:04

Did TW just simultaneously deny and accept that there is a chambers view on trans rights?

Schrödinger's Chamber!!!

Artichokeleaves · 24/05/2022 12:06

Clymene · 24/05/2022 12:02

He's basically said that LGB Alliance is taking away trans rights.

Defending the right to be homosexual and defending women's rights is 'taking away trans rights' is it?

The right to do what?

To whom?

Regardless of consent or impact?

Where exactly is that in the human rights act again? I missed that part.

Gabcsika · 24/05/2022 12:06

TheBiologyStupid · 24/05/2022 12:04

Did TW just simultaneously deny and accept that there is a chambers view on trans rights?

Yes.

Gabcsika · 24/05/2022 12:07

Suddenly TW reverts to answers "I don't know".

katmarie · 24/05/2022 12:08

Penguintears · 24/05/2022 12:02

I missed it what was the lie?

That he was not regularly clerked by Colin Cook, and as such was not in regular communication with him, when Colin Cook basically says in his own evidence that he wasm in regular contact with him.

Ameanstreakamilewide · 24/05/2022 12:08

BC - So it was in the same thread?

😂

Eelicks · 24/05/2022 12:09

BC: these words which you have written, that is what you meant to say isn't it?

TW: I DONT KNOW I JUST DONT KNOW BEN

tabbycatstripy · 24/05/2022 12:09

‘Neaw, neaw...’

RocketPanda · 24/05/2022 12:10

TW is making the ( just growing back after chemo ) hair on my head stand and giving me an uncomfortable feeling inside, kind of sick and like I want to get away from his voice and face. It's a very physical reaction to him.

Gabcsika · 24/05/2022 12:10

OOof. TW on dangerous ground here...

Ameanstreakamilewide · 24/05/2022 12:10

The wonderfully reputable source: Pink News.

I mean, really...

Signalbox · 24/05/2022 12:10

He believed something that Pink News published?

NancyDrawed · 24/05/2022 12:11

TW: A widely held view that the LGBA was anti trans

From the launch tweet?

Datun · 24/05/2022 12:11

Another one who suddenly, unaccountably knows fuck all about fuck nothing.

TheBiologyStupid · 24/05/2022 12:11

TW agrees LGB Alliance is anti-trans thanks to coverage in Gay News and Pink News. Hostile, aggressive and exclusionary.

IdisagreeMrHochhauser · 24/05/2022 12:11

Just called AB an extremist.

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