Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 11

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.
You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)

To come?

Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, to continue on 25th May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge.
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing

Cheers, Party.

CM is well and truly Stonewalled. Lesbians are sexual racists, say Stonewall, and CM.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10225111/Stonewall-brands-lesbians-sexual-racists-raising-concerns-sex-transgender-women.html

On A lighter none BC's support wren is back. 😁

Note

Her starting point seems to be trans women are women. She is not remotely disinterested.

CM just showed everyone the progressive face of homophobia.

Old style homophobia = physical violence
Progressive homophobia = coercive control.

No wonder most of them fail to see that coercion does not necessarily mean violence or threat of violence.

EJG getting miffed that we can't access CM WS.

It's pretty discriminatory implying sexual attraction is a choice, right? Surely it's trampling all over what gay rights campaigners campaigned for if a man can says he's a lesbian. The whole point is that it's SAME SEX attraction. If you re-define that to include male bodies that is erasing lesbians' identity completely.

Yes, it is homophobia. Blatant homophobia to redefine 'lesbian' as 'attracted to males or females'.

I'm not watching, just following here (thank you everyone) but this has GOT to look bad for Stonewall, surely?

THIS is what they are preaching. CM has swallowed their doctrine like a perfect student. This is what it tells people to believe. Therefore it's blindingly obvious that they do not represent the L and the G, and proves precisely why there was a need for the LGBAlliance.

That is a lighter note, ickky - i need it to bring my blood pressure down again.

I hope BC says this - 'would you not say it's homophobic to redefine the word 'lesbian' to include male bodied people?'

There are about thirty members of the Ethics Committee. How interesting that the person they asked for a ‘view’ should be Ms McGahey.

Stead now, IO and RW - they almost had to do something.

Blow off lolllllllllll
In our house it was pump....

This case is quite a reveal isn't ti? That barristers don't understand coercive control, that they believe women not wanting to be naked in front of an unknown man is transphobic and must be banned and that lesbians not wanting to sleep with men who say they're women is akin to racism.

That's quite an upending of the social contract that is.

Steady

He's gay, isn't he? I think I read it on here so correct me if I'm wrong. But he way well be as shocked as the lesbians.

I mean, if 'lesbian' means someone attracted to male OR female bodies what's the difference with heterosexuals or bisexuals? Homophobic.

Helen Joyce is as outraged as we are:

mobile.twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1529036733517529090

EJG getting miffed that we can't access CM WS.

It's because it provides evidence that her order about the documents was too restrictive, which is ironic because after a lot of moaning about Maya Forstater yesterday wanting fewer restrictions, which meant that MF withdrew her application first thing today, we see that today's shambles supports MF's position.

Mrs Overton - isn't that NK's party line?

'Sexual racists'??

Honestly, how hard can it be to share a link? Also sort it out before the tribunal gets started?

He's gay, isn't he? I think I read it on here so correct me if I'm wrong.

If CM is straight, it would be profoundly ironic that she is explaining to leading counsel on both sides that homosexuality doesn't really mean what they've always taken it to mean.

AH is gay, yep.