Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 11

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.
You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)

To come?

Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, to continue on 25th May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge.
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing

‘A barrier between lesbians and transwomen having sex.’

Yes, their fucking sexuality!

(I’m not a lesbian. My heart goes out to all the women who are because this is a DISGRACE.)

AH and BC are gay.

She's deleted it, I didn't see it.

Helen Joyce reposted her tweet.

CM keeps drawing analogies between the glass ceiling and the cotton ceiling. The only thing they have in common is the word "ceiling"!!

BC - 'A dose of penis'

I shouldn't laugh, but...😂

Yes, it is legitimate comment, BC.

Hero.

So if homosexual people are now (forcibly) re-defined as bisexual people, Stonewall can drop the L and the G, can't they? And the equality act trimmed to remove 'sexual orientation', because everybody is attracted to everyone?

I’m in!

In the space of a few minutes I’ve seen administrative balls ups, the Judge getting annoyed, reference to “baffled observers”, Mr Hoch-whatsit interrupting quite rudely and Ben Cooper talking about knickers.

I feel like that’s a synopsis of the last couple of weeks right there.

“The workshop was called How To Murder Women And Get Away With It” but I can’t comment on whether it incited violence unless I knew the content of the workshop…

"a dose of penis" 😆

I laughed at ‘a dose of penis’. This is exactly it: fixing lesbians, moving ‘forward’ into the sunlit uplands where no lesbian will ever insist on her sexual boundaries ever again.

Maybe that's the aim.

How can a supposedly intelligent woman, a barrister no less, NOT feel any discomfort at the idea of lesbians being talked into having sex with transwomen with penises! FFS!

mobile.twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1529037196807786497

At least that would be honest, Mumsnut.

It's all about the T now...

Excellent example Barrystir, makes it so clear

‘How can a supposedly intelligent woman, a barrister no less, NOT feel any discomfort at the idea of lesbians being talked into having sex with transwomen with penises! FFS!’

Because they’re female, of course.

Brains to manual.

One of the many things I don't understand it why CM's analysis of AB's tweet must depend on a high level of proof of that which cannot be proven, ie exactly what was said in the workshop, and she gives no weight to a huge amount of other evidence available showing, that in essence, what AB tweeted was fairly based on the facts. There's no balancing which just seems odd.

Just occurred to me that South Africa is pretty notorious for corrective rape of lesbians.

ugh, this woman.

Also, when CM said that coercion wouldn't be a good idea for developing a future relationship with lesbians - she seems to have some romantic notion that the workshop was designed to help transwomen to develop a "relationship" with lesbians, rather than just advising them on how to "get into lesbians' knickers".

isn this statement, posted above, a hate crime based on homophobia?

‘If the workshop said we might seek to persuade a lesbian that she might want to, that she could want to, have sex with a transwoman... then that would not be coercion.’

On a boring note, I was able to join the tribunal last week on my iPhone but now only get a black screen. Have tried chrome, cleared cookies etc but no luck.anyone still able to watch on an iPhone?

I thought they both looked incredulous at one point.

Struggling to post anything this morning, I'm so horrified by what I'm hearing. And because my ill 5 year old is on Duolingo and keeps popping up to ask me if I know what una nina is. "Yes darling, but look at the screen and you'll see a woman who apparently doesn't regardless of the language."

Judge noting CM's statement...."the concern was the reference to stonewall".

Hmm. Evidence of capture?

Imagine a workshop called "Overcoming child safeguarding barriers" and a barrister arguing that there is no evidence that the workshop is about grooming children.