Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 11

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.
You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)

To come?

Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, to continue on 25th May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge.
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing

These people are MAD. That is all.

BY ITS EXISTENCE it advocates overcoming sexual orientation. How can she not see this? How? HOw? How?

I’m actually disgusted. It’s the smug, self-righteous way these people say the most abhorrent things. How dare they?!

Me too. This is truly outrageous. I wasn't quite expecting this.

It's like invasion of the body snatchers.

CM Make lesbians understand that TW feel female, ARE female, whatever

She was so close to saying TWAW. But FGS, TW are NOT female

This is not doing my blood pressure any favours

Standing desks are much better for you, health wise, and I suspect that they allow you to do a better job of things like tribunals, too - give gravitas.

Drowning not waving. Hurrah.

This witness is winding me up like no other!

Some one pass her a shovel to help dig that hole.

Why can't trans women attempt to sleep with straight women or bisexuals? It's the ducking deliberate targeting of lesbians that makes this so abusive.

OMG she thinks it's OK to pressurise lesbians in a "non-coercive way" to have sex with transwomen!!!

’If the workshop said we might seek to persuade a lesbian that she might want to, that she could want to, have sex with a transwoman... then that would not be coercion.’

Lesbians don’t want to have sex with males. Stop trying to shame them. FGS.

What is she talking about??

She has no knowledge of what happened in the workshop and has no interest in it or in miss Bailey's comment.

Nice.

BC: If you are advocating engaging with a lesbian in a way that tries to persuade her to engage with a transwoman sexually, that is going to be sexually coercive behaviour

CM: No absolutely not. I do not know what was said at this workshop. If it said 'a lesbian might want to, in a non-coercive way, sleep with a trans woman, that would not be how Ms Bailey characterised it.

I have no knoweldge of the workshop. I have no interest. I felt AB could be at risk of a finding of professional misconduct.

Ok. She's sttonewalllllllled

This is the first witness that I actually feel like tweeting after the evidence. She has crossed a line repeatedly.

She had no idea. Yes.

Did this workshop take place, & do we know what actually happened in it? Or is there any publicly available documentation from it?

She is Dolores Umbridge

BC has a very strange look on his face while CM says that perhaps lesbians can be persuaded that they would be fine sleeping with TW (but she can't see that this is in any way coersive, I thought?)

Shades of Rachel McKinnon / Veronica Ivy there

CM:
If the workshop were to show how a lesbian might want to have sex with a transwoman
in a non-coercive way
that would be a workshop that wasn't like the one AB characterised it
AB could not substantiate that the workshop did not do the above.

(Me: This is appalling from CM)

For someone who has no knowledge of what happened at the workshop, she's pretty sure of her conclusion about whether Alison was at risk of professional misconduct for having an opinion.

Or, indeed, other trans women, @IdisagreeMrHochhauser

'Girl dick for thee, but not for me'.

oh my god, this is making me actually shake with anger.

To be fair I didn't see much of Renton, and none of the guy yesterday so I don't know if she's the actual worst. But she's up there.