Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 11

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.
You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)

To come?

Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, to continue on 25th May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge.
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing

They went all out to demonise Allison

Is she implying that lesbians fear or misunderstand heterosexual sex?

It is here or there, Ms McGahey.

Tommy Robinson, Signalbox! 😂

I think Tommy Robinson rather than Tommy Cooper, but you never know, I could have missed it....

CM has lost all credibility

He's trying to get her to agree that just by the fact of its existence, the workshop was by definition coercive. She is being wilfully obtuse.

Cmg says her opinion is neither here nor there WTF

She's a true believer, isn't she?

BC says her analogies are all on the premise that there is discrimination going on e.g. South African apartheid. She agrees. BC says deeply offensive to make these analogies to lesbians who don't want to have sex with penises. That is not discrimination.

She's now waffling and not answering the question.

This is brilliant. Ben is shining a huge fucking spotlight on this issue.

I'm bisexual and I do sleep with men but my lesbian sisters have had years of shit thrown at them over this issue and it's about time that it was made properly public.

For someone who has never seen replies on twitter, somehow Marc Willers QC's account manages to "like" a lot of replies to tweets.

Curiouser and curiouser.

Yes BC, all her examples include discrimination and she’s using them as an analogy to lesbians not wanting to sleep with men, where THERE IS NO DISCRIMINATION. She doesn’t see it, she doesn’t understand this distinction.

I’m actually disgusted. It’s the smug, self-righteous way these people say the most abhorrent things. How dare they?!

So basically she dismissed Allison's (a lesbian barrister) KNOWLEDGE

Ha ha where did that come from!

They're talking past each other a bit - Ben is pointing out that lesbians being attracted to women, and lesbianism is same-sex attraction, and it is not "prejudice" to say they do not want to have sex with male bodied people.

CM is focussing purely on the areas she was asked her opinion on, and refuses to stray outside those areas.

Just tuned in for Ben's very clear question and her babbling bollocks answer and wtf did I just hear?

And now he's asking it again! How many times have they been around this?

AH: I object to the premise of the question!

He's grumpy today

Ben is laughing at the interruption.

‘Overcoming the cotton ceiling’ DOES imply that the barriers are discriminatory. Just as the barriers to female progression in industries are based on discrimination.

EJ used the word 'men' in her notes - not transwomen. Splendid.

I literally cannot believe what I'm hearing from CM re South African apartheid's treatment of Black ppl being the same as lesbians' refusal to have sex with males 😳

So lesbians not wanting to sleep with men is analagous to whites not wanting to integrate with black people in south africa? That is fucking offensive on about a million levels.

I think the judge gets it though from her summary of BC's unfinished interrupted question.