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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 11

1002 replies

ickky · 23/05/2022 16:04

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.
You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)

To come?

Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, to continue on 25th May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge.
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Gabcsika · 24/05/2022 10:24

"Lesbians are being defined by being attracted to other women."

She's wriggling. I wish BC would say homoSEXuality, is not about gender.

Penguintears · 24/05/2022 10:25

Oh now she's saying it's irrelevant!

Appalonia · 24/05/2022 10:25

She doesn't know if in law, lesbians are defined as being same sex attracted, including transwomen??

IdisagreeMrHochhauser · 24/05/2022 10:25

THIS IS KEY TO ALL OF IT BEN.

I can hear pennies dropping all over the place.

Shut up Hochhauser.

FacebookPhotos · 24/05/2022 10:25

People with penises trying to find ways to convinces lesbians to have sexual relationships with them are by definition trying to be coercive!

CuntAmongstThePigeons · 24/05/2022 10:25

OMG she's so annoying!!!! Doesn't see how coercion featured in the workshop.

Penguintears · 24/05/2022 10:25

"get into lesbian's knickers"

dworky · 24/05/2022 10:26

Oh god, apartheid now

Birdsweepsin · 24/05/2022 10:26

Mandela? Rugby World Cup? WTF?

katmarie · 24/05/2022 10:26

Oh flipping heck, now we're onto south africa and sport? what has that got to do with whether women want to have sex with men or not?

Appalonia · 24/05/2022 10:26

And now she's comparing it to apartheid...

Ameanstreakamilewide · 24/05/2022 10:26

How are they all defining coercion?

She's already agreed that it's sometimes emotional and psychological, etc.

No one gives a shit about the fucking Springboks, Cathryn.

tabbycatstripy · 24/05/2022 10:27

The protected characteristic is sexual attraction. Straight people are protected. People who are attracted to people on the basis of gender are protected. And lesbians - females who are attracted to other females - are protected. Strategising to overcome that is homophobia.

What is she on about now? Apartheid?

funnelfanjo · 24/05/2022 10:27

I've logged on for the first time today. Absolutely fascinating.

HerbertChops · 24/05/2022 10:27

🤯 she thinks lesbians are same sex attracted in law but she’s unsure if in law this includes trans women????

User237845 · 24/05/2022 10:27

The outcome of all south africans not hating each other is not hte same as lesbians having to sleep with male-bodied people. ffs

Signalbox · 24/05/2022 10:27

Tommy Cooper, Anti Semitism and now Apartheid.

chilling19 · 24/05/2022 10:27

CM - no information to the content if this workshop - so she made a decision on this without knowing the content?

Gabcsika · 24/05/2022 10:27

LOL. Ben looks really confused.

CmcG now talking about post colonial South Africa, brining together groups and overcoming prejudice isn't coercision.

Apparently, trans women are like the black women of lesbianism. More racism from CMcG

Scorched · 24/05/2022 10:27

I’m shocked so many lawyers don’t understand coersive control

dworky · 24/05/2022 10:27

Even Ben is exasperated

nauticant · 24/05/2022 10:27

CM: Let's draw a parallel between men seeking to overcome lesbians' sexual boundaries and how Nelson Mandela overcame Apartheid.

She's a real whataboutery merchant.

chilling19 · 24/05/2022 10:27

BC - yes the premise - what is the premise CM?

Birdsweepsin · 24/05/2022 10:27

Not very bright? Or Stonewalled to the hilt?

NancyDrawed · 24/05/2022 10:27

CM is looking uncomfortable now

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