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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 11

1002 replies

ickky · 23/05/2022 16:04

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.
You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)

To come?

Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, to continue on 25th May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge.
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Gabcsika · 24/05/2022 10:21

OOOF! "BC It's not a matter of predjudice to be same sex attracted, is it"?

CMcG doesn't understand the question.

Cathryn. Let me explain . SEXUAL ORIENTATION ISN'T A PREJUDICE.

PinkTonic · 24/05/2022 10:21

She doesn’t understand how it is not a matter of prejudice for a lesbian not to want to sleep with men 😂

Clymene · 24/05/2022 10:22

AH is on interruption 3

Signalbox · 24/05/2022 10:22

BC: It's not a matter of prejudice for a lesbian for a lesbian to be same sex attracted is it?

CMcG: I'm sorry I don't understand the question.

FacebookPhotos · 24/05/2022 10:22

I hate that she is linking same-sex attraction to a choice.

I do NOT have a choice about what kinds of bodies I'm attracted to.

oviraptor21 · 24/05/2022 10:22

AH interrupts again

Now a phone goes off

chilling19 · 24/05/2022 10:22

AH - interruption!

Gabcsika · 24/05/2022 10:22

AH interrupts because BC has said that his comment that her saying "I don't know!" is revealing about her attitude.

PinkTonic · 24/05/2022 10:22

And now AH steps in to save her

IDidntKnowItWasAParty · 24/05/2022 10:22

Another supposedly eminient legal mind, reduced to stating and defending utter absurdities. Surely CM cannot actually believe the lunacy that she is saying.

Birdsweepsin · 24/05/2022 10:22

BC: diff between cotton ceiling and glass ceiling is that no-one reasonably believes that women shouldn't succeed in their employment

It is not a matter of prejudice for a lesbian to be same sex attracted is it?

CM: I don't understand. I struggle with this. It is surely open to anybody to make a personal choice about who they sleep with

BC: Maybe you just don't see it.

AH: Outrageous!

LOUD Phone rings... Silence.

Artichokeleaves · 24/05/2022 10:23

The lengths they will go to in order to sustain their own denial.

It's bloody obvious that a) they know exactly what is wrong about this and

b) they cannot own or face that they support it because even to them it is indefensible.

Bloody cowards.

User237845 · 24/05/2022 10:23

Ben got her to agree that it is unreasonable for some men not to want women to climb the corporate ladder which means that the use of the term cotton ceiling in its similarity therefore suggests that it is "unreasonable" for lesbians not to sleep with tw.

Ameanstreakamilewide · 24/05/2022 10:23

AH getting shirty with BC.

BC remarked that CM's comments were revealing about her attitude.

Pyjamagame · 24/05/2022 10:23

I'm fucksaking away here. Dear Lord, what the chuff have Stonewall done to the judiciary???

tabbycatstripy · 24/05/2022 10:23

EJ implies the witness seems to have trouble understanding the difference between lesbianism and prejudice.

This is astounding.

oviraptor21 · 24/05/2022 10:23

Seems like that may have been EJ's phone.

EJ asking BC to reframe the qu. despite AH's objection

User237845 · 24/05/2022 10:23

Well he's still trying to get her to understand the second bit!

chilling19 · 24/05/2022 10:23

BC - having to try very hard here

Appalonia · 24/05/2022 10:24

This discussion is so frustrating! It's like they're talking at cross purposes.

LipbalmOrKnickers · 24/05/2022 10:24

CM doesn't know the legal definition of lesbian.

dworky · 24/05/2022 10:24

CM is a complete eejiit

Penguintears · 24/05/2022 10:24

This is juicy stuff.

Pyjamagame · 24/05/2022 10:24

Why the hell didn't she find out the legal definition of a lesbian?

LipbalmOrKnickers · 24/05/2022 10:24

Because she's not a discrimination lawyer?? Who knew this was a specialist subject?

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