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Original poster

Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Appeal Tribunal hearing Thread 19

738 replies

ickky · 26/09/2022 17:24

Allison Bailey has tweeted her intention to appeal the Stonewall decision.

twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1572133035335716865

The Tribunal started on 25th April, witness testimony concluded on the 26th May. Closing arguments for council was on the 20th June.

There was also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/allison-bailey-vs-stonewall-and-garden

Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC )
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = Judge Goodman, Mr M. Reuby and Ms Darmas

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, 25 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Cathryn McGahey - Bar Council Ethics Committee's VC (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
Colin Cook - Head clerk at GCC (24 May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing (25 May)
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC (25 May)
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge (26 May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers (26 May)

Closing arguments for AB, GCC, and SW (20 June)

Allison Bailey's Witness Statement

allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Witness-Statement-of-Allison-Bailey.pdf
Supplementary Statement
allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/C-Supplementary-Witness-Statement.pdf
Closing Statement
allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/CLOSING-SUBMISSIONS-FINAL.pdf

The Reserved Judgement (forth one down)

www.gov.uk/employment-tribunal-decisions/ms-a-bailey-v-stonewall-equality-ltd-and-others-2202172-slash-2020

OP posts:

Thread gallery

NoBinturongsHereMate · 14/05/2024 18:20

WookeyHole · 14/05/2024 13:35

Ooof. I wish I still had all of the brains cells middle age is robbing me of.

Thank you for the explanations. I've copied a bit of TT; please can someone explain this section a bit more? I think it follows the great explanations above, I'm interested to understand it further.

I think it's this.

If you polish the floor and someone slips on it, you caused them to fall. You might have meant people to fall over, or you might just have wanted a shiny floor. Your intention may not match the result.

If you wait for someone to walk past and then give them a shove, you induced the fall. You wanted a specific thing to happen and it did.

Propertylover · 14/05/2024 17:27

Do the legal eagles on here have a sense whose arguments are stronger?

MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving · 14/05/2024 17:24

I'm sure that phrase also cropped up in Allison's hearing as I've heard him say it. I also have an image of him staring at the camera while he said it, although that could well be my menopausal creative brain.

StickItInTheFamilyAlbum · 14/05/2024 16:52

GoodHeavens99 · 14/05/2024 16:38

I think about that exchange once a month.

Show quote history

Found it:

BC: If we look ahead, we see email from you on 22 Feb that says there is some PR risk but in UK the PR risk could run in opposite direction. Reflects same divergence of views doesn't it?

MP: Y

BC: It would be unkind of me to ask how it's all panned out...

MP: No comment.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4507443-Maya-Forstater-Tribunal-March-2022-Thread-3?reply=115929215&

GoodHeavens99 · 14/05/2024 16:38

StickItInTheFamilyAlbum · 14/05/2024 16:37

I laughed long and hard at BCs comment. Classic.

There are many times in meetings when I attempt to channel BC and think of what he would say.

Was it Maya's EAT at which he said to someone from CGD who'd spoken of his wish to avoid controversy, "It would be unkind to ask how that's working out for you"? (Paraphrase.)

I think about that exchange once a month.

StickItInTheFamilyAlbum · 14/05/2024 16:37

I laughed long and hard at BCs comment. Classic.

There are many times in meetings when I attempt to channel BC and think of what he would say.

Was it Maya's EAT at which he said to someone from CGD who'd spoken of his wish to avoid controversy, "It would be unkind to ask how that's working out for you"? (Paraphrase.)

Karensalright · 14/05/2024 16:34

Thanks Ickky

GrimDamnFanjo · 14/05/2024 16:10

ArabellaScott · 14/05/2024 15:54

IO: We need to fit them all in
EJ: all of them?
IO: yes KM, his mother, his support person and his support dog
BC: this is all new information

😁

I laughed long and hard at BCs comment. Classic.

Original poster

ickky · 14/05/2024 16:02

TT from this afternoon

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1790362706819600573.html

resumes tomorrow at 10.30am All the same details to log in tomorrow.

Thread by @tribunaltweets on Thread Reader App

@tribunaltweets: Good afternoon. We are continuing live-tweeting Allison Bailey's case at the Employment Appeal Tribunal. Coverage of the morning sessions is here and here archive.is/nJ3J7 archive.is/ITjWD Abbreviat...…

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1790362706819600573.html

OP posts:

Karensalright · 14/05/2024 16:02

@Boiledbeetle hiya can you post a link to the afternoon session please as it seems the only way i can access the hearing thanks in anticipation

GoodHeavens99 · 14/05/2024 15:56

That's about the size of it.

LipbalmOrKnickers · 14/05/2024 15:56

Back at 10:30 tomorrow.

Original poster

ickky · 14/05/2024 15:55

LipbalmOrKnickers · 14/05/2024 15:53

It's a dim and distant memory but from what I recall there was a lot of back and forth about rallying posts made on the STAG forum, again trying to disassociate what was posted there from Stonewall proper.

I remember it as follows

Michelle Brewer speaks on the phone to a member of Stag, they then rally the troops asking everyone to make a complaint quickly as there was a time limit to get the complaint in before a meeting about it at GCC on the following Monday.

OP posts:

ArabellaScott · 14/05/2024 15:54

IO: We need to fit them all in
EJ: all of them?
IO: yes KM, his mother, his support person and his support dog
BC: this is all new information

😁

MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving · 14/05/2024 15:54

EJ Young grew on me during Jo’s hearing - the pronouns enquiry at the start and continual faffing around scheduling may have been due to her relative inexperience in presiding over a hearing, but she appeared to be spot on in catching the applicable points of law during evidence, by her questions to the witnesses.

I’d agree that EJ Goodman had a handle on both the running of the court and the legal arguments, and maybe that’s due to her greater experience. That case also benefited (for the observers) by being online and so nearly everyone spoke directly into the camera. We all got the benefit of the Ben Cooper hard stare.

GoodHeavens99 · 14/05/2024 15:53

PoshCoffee · 14/05/2024 15:50

I always suspected the support person was Nancy Kelley, who would have been KM’s boss at the time. It’s just a hunch based on how quickly they left when they had to appear on screen

It felt like they were up to no good, quite frankly.

All the cloak and dagger behaviour, and thinking BC and EJG would just roll over and let them have their own way.
As people usually do.

LipbalmOrKnickers · 14/05/2024 15:53

redalex261 · 14/05/2024 15:52

Thanks for STAG explanation makes it much clearer.

GoodHeavens99 · 14/05/2024 15:50

LipbalmOrKnickers · 14/05/2024 15:50

Was it Stonewall Trans Action Group?

Yep.

LipbalmOrKnickers · 14/05/2024 15:50

Was it Stonewall Trans Action Group?

PoshCoffee · 14/05/2024 15:50

I always suspected the support person was Nancy Kelley, who would have been KM’s boss at the time. It’s just a hunch based on how quickly they left when they had to appear on screen

redalex261 · 14/05/2024 15:49

IdisagreeMrHochhauser · 14/05/2024 15:27

Finding this quite tricky to follow.

Me too! Trying to work as well!!
What is STAG? could not find in abbreviations.

And, why oh why does ANY adult engaged in full time paid employment require a solicitor, tech support person, support animal, support person and their bloody mum to answer a few questions?

Propertylover · 14/05/2024 15:49

@ickky I agree about running the ET but Judge Young’s judgement was so thorough.

Never have so many academics been collectively told they lack rigour😂.

LipbalmOrKnickers · 14/05/2024 15:48

GoodHeavens99 · 14/05/2024 15:46

I loved her.

Martin Reuby was excellent, as well.

Show quote history

I'd forgotten Martin Reuby! You're right he was fantastic. Down to earth and laser-focused.

Pyjamagame · 14/05/2024 15:48

I don't think the judge is with her on her arguments. But of course, they are not going to give anything away. But he does seem to be asking a lot of questions.

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