NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #40

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38
Thread 39: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378747-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-39

Witnesses in the hearing so far with skeleton chronology:

Monday, 3 February 2025
Sandie Peggie

Tuesday, 4 February 2025
Sandie Peggie

Wedneday, 5 February 2025
Sandie Peggie
Maya Forstater
Mr Peggie (Sandie Peggie's husband)
Nicole Peggie (Sandie Peggie's daughter)

Thursday, 6 February 2025
a row about disclosure particularly over BMA documents
Sheila Bell (Sandie Peggie's mum)
Beth Upton

Friday, 7 February 2025
very late start, massive row over disclosure, agreed that Beth Upton would start giving evidence on Monday

Monday 10 February 2025
Beth Upton

Tuesday 11 February 2025
Beth Upton
collapse of public access

Wednesday 12 February 2025
Beth Upton

Thursday 13 February 2025
Esther Davidson

Friday 14 February 2025
Esther Davidson

a break of many months

Wednesday 16 July 2025
Isla Bumba

Thursday 17 July 2025
Gillian Malone

Friday 18 July 2025
Elspeth Pitt
Louise Curran
the omnishambles ending provided by the statement from NHS Fife

Monday 21 July 2025
a late start seemingly with the panel and lawyers in discussions about something
Lottie Myles

Tuesday 22 July 2025
another late start seemingly with the panel and lawyers in discussions about something
Kate Searle

Wednesday 23 July 2035
another late start seemingly with the panel and lawyers in discussions about something
Lauren Harris
Kate Searle

Thursday 24 July 2025
Angela Glancy (scheduled but might change)
Ann Hamilton (scheduled but might change)

This is a list of Abbreviations used by Tribunal Tweets and has been taken from their substack

Claimant, respondents, counsel, members of the court

C/SP - Claimant, Sandy Peggie
NC - Naomi Cunningham, C’s barrister
MG - Margaret Gribbons, C’s solicitor
R/Board - first respondent, Fife Health Board
R2/DU - second respondent, Dr B Upton
Rs – first and second respondents
JR - Jane Russell, KC, barrister for respondents
AW - Adam Watson, solicitor for respondents
J - Employment Judge Alexander Kemp
ET - Employment Tribunal
P1, P2 - additional panel members; CM Russell, L Brown

Witnesses/Frequently Referenced Personnel of NHS Fife

MF - Maya Forstater, CEO of Sex Matters
DP - Darren Peggie, Claimant's husband
NP - Nicole Peggie, Claimant's daughter
SB - Sheila Bell, Claimant's mother
ED - Esther Davidson, SP’s line manager
IB – Isla Bumba, NHS Fife Equality and Diversity Lead Officer
KS - Kate Searle, A&E consultant
SF - Stuart Fraser, SP’s RCN Rep
AG - Angela Glancy, headed up in SP investigation
VV – Vic Valentine, Equality Network

Abbreviations for frequently used terms (not exhaustive)

AE - Accident & emergency department
B&H - bullying and harassment
CR - changing room
CX – complaint
DX - disciplinary procedure or process
FtP - fitness to practice
GC /SR: gender critical or sex realists. Belief that biological sex is important, immutable and different from gender identity
GI – Gender identity is a person's internal sense of their own gender, which may or may not align with their birth sex.
HI - hate incident
HR - Human Rights
IX - investigation
PCP - provision, criteria or practice is a rule, policy, or practice that can put people at a disadvantage based on certain characteristics. The term is used in employment law to assess whether an employer's actions create different outcomes for employees based on their characteristics.
SocMed - social media
SM - Sex Matters
TM – transman (person born female who claims a male gender identity)
TMAM - transmen are men
TW – Transwoman (person born male who claims a female gender identity)
TWAW - transwomen are women
OfS - Once for Scotland
EA - Equality Act 2010
PC - protected characteristic; 9 under EA
RA - risk assessment

Signing in ready for tomorrow.

Thanks @nauticant

Thanks @nauticant
I can't keep up at all, just dipping in and out.

Thanks for all the hard work @nauticant

Not an easy job keeping us all on the right path

I hope it’s an earlier start tomorrow as my afternoons are always busy.

40 threads, holy moly. It's like the Archers for Mumsnet.

Would it be possible for people to turn their attention to this post by@FayeRC from a previous thread:

I have a similar court case in England's side which aims to protect single-sex facilities for women. It is in need of support to cover legal fees and can be found by searching for Faye Russell-Caldicott on crowdjustice.com

"I have issued an employment tribunal complaint against NHS England for indirect discrimination on the basis of sex (women), religion (Islam), philosophical belief (gender critical) and disability (PTSD) for having a policy in place which effectively renders the supposed single-sex toilet, changing room and showering facilities as mixed-sex."

There's more information here: https://sex-matters.org/case-briefings/faye-russell-caldicott-v-nhs-england/

Thanks @nauticant,no doubt it will be full by the time I get to catch up tomorrow.

.

I’m beginning to think that KS’s immediate response to DU’s initial claim against SP was entirely motivated by self interest.

As soon as DU mentioned reporting to police as a possibility KS was ALL about ensuring everything she did could not possibly be viewed by police as transphobic.

The last line in the email is very telling — DU should absolutely report to police (paraphrasing) and I’ll come out of it with a shiny commendation for my kindness.

I did wonder if she was afraid DU might start own ET but her comments about emails not being made available makes me doubt that.

But I am convinced it was all performative in fear of police investigation. An investigation for which there has no expectation of demanding disclosure but which would only look at official records and DU’s testimony.

I also believe KS has form with regard to controlling the narrative. She shows some skill in this and which would pass the usual tests but not the test of NC, CE and SP and solicitor Maggie.

She wanted DU to say to police that KS has been brilliant. She wanted to shuffle the pieces on the board to look a certain way with her as Queen, able to move in any direction.

There was a desire to be publicly rewarded for her kindness in a police report, perhaps. But more than anything she wanted there to be no accusation towards herself of even a sniff of ‘transphobia’.

One thing I don’t think we’ve addressed is that in today’s cross NC pulled out comms from Upton telling managers (or just KS not sure) that he is too scared to come in or some such. It was in about discussions regarding why changing shifts wasn’t feasible. KS offered up some BS then NC produces the email and pointed out that it was this pressure that resulted in suspension ie they chose suspension to appease Upton.

This would also tally with my earlier assessment— that KS was so absolutely convinced a police intervention was a coming and she was determined to be seen to have done the right thing.

She believes that allowing even the possibility of an encounter with SP in passing would be viewed as a ‘transphobic’ act

I imagine they had had some recent training around possible hate crime and she was deploying all that she had learned from that training
and what the likely police action might be. I think she believed herself to be expert

There is a darkness behind all
this that is the controlling hand of trans activism — as we know.

Needapadlockonmyfridge · Today 22:26

I have just caught up.
My golly, Fife aren't doing themselves any favours, are they.
I still can't get over these qualified, experienced doctors who don't seem to believe in biological sex. It's mind-boggling. WTF?

Beth Upton is an egregiously entitled, science-denying, L-plated male doctor who insists he’s a biological woman and think it’s a hate crime for female nurses not to want to undress in front of him. It says a lot, I think, about the quality of medical staff @ Victoria Hospital that he is FAR from the worst witness NHS Fife have fielded to date.

Excited for HR witnesses tomorrow!

‘Beth Upton is an egregiously entitled, science-denying, L-plated male doctor who insists he’s a biological woman and think it’s a hate crime for female nurses not to want to undress in front of him. It says a lot, I think, about the quality of medical staff @ Victoria Hospital that he is FAR from the worst witness NHS Fife have fielded to date.,

This. In spades!

Happy 40th thread

Hahaha!

Thanks Nauti you are doing an amazing job.

Just checking in before bed, so I don’t miss anything. Thanks for the 40th thread 🙏

Narcissistic compassion is what you’ve picked up on

Place marking

Didn’t RTF last T so don’t know if the point was made, but did KS ask all female junior doctors if they were happy using the female changing rooms? And if not, why did she ask Dr Upton?

With Fife still not proving she's done anything wrong, I cant imagine Sandie is losing any of her confidence that she's doing the right thing.
This has probably been highlighted already but even the BBC are now reporting more fairly on Fife's stuff ups, "Consultant spoke to trans row witness despite warnings".
Earlier I saw photos of Sandie and her mum (think Scottish Herald) going into court and they looked relaxed and happy. Her daughter's recent comment on X referred to her Sandie being her best friend.
It's great to see how close she is with her family and when this ends Sandie remains a strong and honest women suppported amongst her family.
Hope tomorrow goes as well.

Roll on tomorrow!😁

Just wanted to share this here.

I’ve said it before- Dr Searle is afraid of Dr Upton. She has recognised that he is a very dangerous man who would turn on her in a moment and spout all kinds of accusations if she didn’t dance to his exact tune. That is why she is appeases him to the nth degree- time honoured technique of a woman “making nice” to a scary man. Sure, she’s also a fully paid up gender ideology cult member but if you look at her behaviour in the context of her being afraid of Dr Upton, it makes more sense.