NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #40

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38
Thread 39: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378747-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-39

I don't know if this one has been suggested yet. It's great although it doesn't use up that many courgettes really.

https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/pistachio-courgette-lemon-cake

See if you can spot my comment :)

We are currently in the case for the defendants. We generally have a very clear division in civil cases - the claimant presents their case, then the defendants present theirs. Sometimes, in exceptional circumstances such as late evidence emerging, the claimant is allowed to re-open their case and call additional witnesses, but that is rare. The assumption is that all the remaining witnesses are for Fife. However, as we have seen, that doesn't necessarily mean their evidence will help Fife.

Ah yes, the two sexes. Hags and bots 😙

I'm thinking the main singer as one of those 'cursive' singers, with their hand permanently at one ear and a pained look on their face and the rest of the band wandering about with acoustic guitars, tambourines and harmonicas with a sort of Lumineers video vibe (dusk and fairylights, round the campfire).

Catchy songs but very self aware sort of twee-ness iyswim.

Does that mean the IT expert is a Fife witness? I've been wondering about that. I knew defence witnesses came second but I've been wondering how an IT expert in this case could be in Fife's favour.

ooh!

@ZippyPearlPeer Yes!

At the very heart of all of this is the amount of time and effort devoted to hurty words.

A female doctor would have tried to avoid crying or making a scene over a changing room disagreement for fear of being seen as unprofessional, too soft, not cut out for emergency medicine etc.

I'd imagine every female (and probably male) working in a high stress environment like a and e has had a colleague speak to them in a less than perfect manner (we don't know this happened in this case but even if it did).

This 'unsafe' wording would not be applied in any other context and yet it was universally accepted here. It is total madness and I agree, shows he very much isn't being treated like the women expected to put up and shut up.

I reckon we’ve a good hour to discuss courgette recipes. Nigella’s one is a favourite in this household:
https://www.nigella.com/recipes/lemon-polenta-cake

Redditors spend so much time sobbing and shaking after being subjected to the literal genocide that is being 'misgendered' that they forget normal people don't react like them. They think calling us hags will be a devastating blow that leaves us sobbing, shaking and unable to function for days. I get called a terf a lot on Reddit by people who think it's a cutting blow and seem astounded that I neither find it insulting not collapse into a wounded heap incapable of continuing the conversation.

Sorry to ask a stupid question, but is the Darlington tribunal still happening in October?

Pete the Plumber needs a band too. Or is he more of a soloist? Cake and imaginary band names - perfect start to a boring Thursday

At what point would SP be able to retire and claim her NHS pension? I just wonder, after 30 years, that would be on my mind

Kate Searle.

The over keen head girl who wants to suck up to all the teachers by showing how good she is but is an absolute horror show bossing all her peers around and ostracising anyone who doesn't defer to her authority with her head girl clique.

The woman never left the school playground.

Two thoughts about the IT person.
Important for Fife to show they disclosed everything, so IT person can explain how they sweep for FOI request responses, explain email retention policy and so on.
I'm guessing they are a Fife witness. We may well be seeing more C witnesses because things weren't disclosed properly.
My money is on the IT person having found and disclosed the missing email (s).

This paragraph stood out for me, in effect "I can tell Upton's sex but not my own"

Thus we reach a situation in which people incapable of determining their own sex are nevertheless also sure that a person such as Upton is indubitably a woman because, well, because he says he is and so that must be true. This contradiction....

I have absolutely no idea why but I'm getting a Men At Work band style vibe from Pete.

And now I've got the song Land Down Under in my head.

Why wouldn't she be afraid? The NHS itself has repeatedly made it clear that it's in.thrall to genderism, as has Police Scotland, and indeed the Scottish Government.

Searle may have her failings but it's quite logical for a staff member to have assumed that a trans person must be held in higher regard than any other member of staff, because that is the message the makers of the sacred caste have relentlessly and repeatedly pushed.

The most marginalised, Pride lanyards, LGBTQIA staff groups, diversity trainings, EDI officers who appear to do nothing bar some vague TWAW cheerleading, the utter absence of any consideration for anyone else with other protected characteristics or needs.

Society has created this quasi religion, with transwomen as the ultimate sacred caste, and it would surely make sense to worship at it, as that is the message thats been pushed, by government, media, academia, Justice system, etc.

Ha, yes, I'm quite glad that dd got over her early teens Lumineers phase

A reminder that NHS Scotland had to report itself to the police because it hosted a link to the Eunuch Archive on its website. This archive contains a lot of child sex abuse fantasy.

How.did this happen? WPATH standards of care was what had been uploaded to the NHS site.

WPATH push for 'eunuch gender ' to be recognised as a valid gender, and NHS rely (or relied) on WPATH for care guidance on treating gender issues.

Perfect fit for Pete, no nonsense music making.

"I met a strange lady...she made me nervous..."

Do you come from a land down under?
Where transwomen cry and Fife blunder
Can you hear, can you hear the thunder?
You better lie, you better take cover

NHS Scotland (and the Scotgov) were using WPATH as a source of information and resource.

Reduxx have done great work on this, but it was Mumsnet who brought the Eunuch Archive link to public attention.

It sounds like a wacky conspiracy theory. Unfortunately, it's not.

Last time.i checked NHS England still had a link to WPATH SoC v 8 on the Nottingham site. This is the one that links to.the Eunuch Archive.

I have bought fresh black clay to make some dinnerware in our kitchen and I feel like I need to make myself a new big mug with a range of hag/bot/witch/bitch insults punched into it.

I'll get onto that later. If anyone has any more to add, please share. Especially if they rhyme.