NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #38

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37

This seems so weirdly over the top from someone just reading about it and not viewing. It reads as total 'please please don't make me do this' from an adult woman in an important position, it sounds so wheedling and childish. I feel like I'm missing so much here.

do imaginary witnesses count?

JR complaining about NC's repetitive questioning of KS

Pot kettle

All except being able to reliably sex a newborn apparently, or distinguish her own sex without recourse to her birth certificate.

From TT

We're back
J - KS ready?
KS - yes
J - if need a break say
NC - the mendion of health care assist seemed to upset you a great deal why
KS - i spoke to her about being a witness, didn't herself or her name to be involved in this case.
NC - upset because wanted to protect upset due to anxiety
KS - said dind't want any part because as a mixed race person, that SP views about her race would impact working together going forward
NC - youre asking us to believe your concern over how SP would treat her, caused that outburst?
KS - I'm kind, don't want to cause harm through this case
NC - do you agree she was an important witness
KS - agree

NC - only person who can shed light on DU's allegations about patient who left.
KS - I agree.
NC - ref bundle 484 look at qu 2 and answer, then I'll ask qu
NC - AG asked this witness a commendably open question, answer was flat contradiction of DU said...
JR interrupts.
(NC) withdraws. Repeat qu. her evidence flatly contradicts.
KS - says can't recall the conv
NC - but recalls there was a conv
KS - doesn't say which 3 people presen

Fifer : backchat with NC. Sure, how no gie that a try an let ays ken hoo ye got on?

NC - it does, it says there was a conv about a child who went missing.
KS - says she was unable to recall the conv
NC - saying it didn't happen?
KS - recalls there was a conv, not what it was, contradicts herself
NC - asked in chief about subsequent conv with this witness
NC -was it subsequent to AG interview with her?
KS - dont recall when it happened.
NC - in broad terms?
KS - no, beth, only knew of incident on 29th dec, not specifics of support worker name... don't recall
NC - you were asked, whether you had had any sub conv re 2nd incident
NC - can't help at all? spring? summer?
KS - it's been a long process, its all blurred into one between dec and now.
NC - this is a conv that caused you such anxiety for her, might be burnt in memory?
JR - didn't say that and repetitive questioning unlikely to help

Oh FUCK OFF JR!

Oh bog off JR

Or think in a straight common sense line. Sake.

Continuation thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378747-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-39

And she better hope she can back that up, or a whole new world of pain awaits her.

JR calling into question NC's people skills!!!!!

This is SP, who KS didn't know?

anyolddinosaur · Today 11:34
This is what was said about KS knowledge of Sandie - source TT
"JR - describe relationship with SP
KS - I'm a consultant in dept,
KS - large ept have know since started
JR - id you know of her GC views?
KS - no
JR - do you knoww hat it means?
KS - yes I think so
JR - aware of any of SP's views?
KS - no"

Ffs. Tears have gone back to head shaking and I don't recalls.
JR accusing NC of having poor people skills for describing KS upset as an outburst.

Eeek argument between lawyers time for a cup of tea and a slice of Nigellas courgette cake. Everyone breathe!

NC now going through the witness answers to AG which contradicts DU.

It seems to me that since then Rhianna has been told by others SP is racist to wind her up. Rhianna now believes that.

I think KS is upset because she thought the accusations of racism, made up tittle tattle, would protect her from Rhianna exposes her leap to believe the patient safety issues and has encouraged her to believe SP is racist and which puts her at risk.

Even if I’m wrong this is well dodge.

Most likely is that she had nothing to say because there was nothing to say.

Surely if there was reasonable reason to believe that she had relevant evidence to add then she would be forced to be here by someone or other?

Effectively KS (and Fife?) are arguing that Sandie is so racist that they can;t back up bullying accusations against Upton because they can't call their own mixed-race witness because she is so fearful of Peggie's racism that she will lie under oath and not back up Searle / Fife's position.

It is for the judge to decide which is more likely - the previous paragraph or the fact that in the absence of any evidence to prove racism, Peggie is not racist (and even if she was that is not something Fife have ever investigated let alone found her guilty of, nor does it negate Peggie's case).

I feel sorry for every mixed race person who works for NHS Fife, they have been needlessly dragged into this and singled out for attention because of their ethnicity by unscrupulous tactics by their employer.

Now that seems a bit racist.

Sounds like KS isn't protecting the reluctant witness, she's protecting DU. That witness has flat out contradicted DU, and well, she can't have that on the stand can she? Pretend she's concerned for her instead and chuck in a few racism smears for good measure!

Has she stopped crying yet?

From Herald. Q from KS “It is not fair on her and she did not consent to this.”

Neither did SP and the other women forced to share a F CR with DU.

What made you seek her out

Looooooong pause then

Supporting beth 🤔

JR - you naming a person caused her anxiety, seeing her upset, calling it an outburst means people skills leave a lot to be desired

!!

I reckon all of these racism accusations are simply predicated on Sandie having, maybe, expressed a view to someone on undocumented migration.

Surely they HAVE to call Rhianna as a witness now...?

Naomi is brilliant, like a lamb to the slaughter.