NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #38

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37

Poor nauticant

I am fucked off to be honest.

Would it be possible for people to turn their attention to this post by@FayeRCfrom a previous thread:

I have a similar court case in England's side which aims to protect single-sex facilities for women. It is in need of support to cover legal fees and can be found by searching for Faye Russell-Caldicott on crowdjustice.com

"I have issued an employment tribunal complaint against NHS England for indirect discrimination on the basis of sex (women), religion (Islam), philosophical belief (gender critical) and disability (PTSD) for having a policy in place which effectively renders the supposed single-sex toilet, changing room and showering facilities as mixed-sex."

There's more information here: https://sex-matters.org/case-briefings/faye-russell-caldicott-v-nhs-england/

Witnesses in the hearing so far with skeleton chronology:

Monday, 3 February 2025
Sandie Peggie

Tuesday, 4 February 2025
Sandie Peggie

Wedneday, 5 February 2025
Sandie Peggie
Maya Forstater
Mr Peggie (Sandie Peggie's husband)
Nicole Peggie (Sandie Peggie's daughter)

Thursday, 6 February 2025
a row about disclosure particularly over BMA documents
Sheila Bell (Sandie Peggie's mum)
Beth Upton

Friday, 7 February 2025
very late start, massive row over disclosure, agreed that Beth Upton would start giving evidence on Monday

Monday 10 February 2025
Beth Upton

Tuesday 11 February 2025
Beth Upton
collapse of public access

Wednesday 12 February 2025
Beth Upton

Thursday 13 February 2025
Esther Davidson

Friday 14 February 2025
Esther Davidson

a break of many months

Wednesday 16 July 2025
Isla Bumba

Thursday 17 July 2025
Gillian Malone

Friday 18 July 2025
Elspeth Pitt
Louise Curran
the omnishambles ending provided by the statement from NHS Fife

Monday 21 July 2025
a late start seemingly with the panel and lawyers in discussions about something
Lottie Myles

Tuesday 22 July 2025
another late start seemingly with the panel and lawyers in discussions about something
Kate Searle

Wednesday 23 July 2035
Kate Searle

This is a list of Abbreviations used by Tribunal Tweets and has been taken from their substack

Claimant, respondents, counsel, members of the court

C/SP - Claimant, Sandy Peggie
NC - Naomi Cunningham, C’s barrister
MG - Margaret Gribbons, C’s solicitor
R/Board - first respondent, Fife Health Board
R2/DU - second respondent, Dr B Upton
Rs – first and second respondents
JR - Jane Russell, KC, barrister for respondents
AW - Adam Watson, solicitor for respondents
J - Employment Judge Alexander Kemp
ET - Employment Tribunal
P1, P2 - additional panel members; CM Russell, L Brown

Witnesses/Frequently Referenced Personnel of NHS Fife

MF - Maya Forstater, CEO of Sex Matters
DP - Darren Peggie, Claimant's husband
NP - Nicole Peggie, Claimant's daughter
SB - Sheila Bell, Claimant's mother
ED - Esther Davidson, SP’s line manager
IB – Isla Bumba, NHS Fife Equality and Diversity Lead Officer
KS - Kate Searle, A&E consultant
SF - Stuart Fraser, SP’s RCN Rep
AG - Angela Glancy, headed up in SP investigation
VV – Vic Valentine, Equality Network

Abbreviations for frequently used terms (not exhaustive)

AE - Accident & emergency department
B&H - bullying and harassment
CR - changing room
CX – complaint
DX - disciplinary procedure or process
FtP - fitness to practice
GC /SR: gender critical or sex realists. Belief that biological sex is important, immutable and different from gender identity
GI – Gender identity is a person's internal sense of their own gender, which may or may not align with their birth sex.
HI - hate incident
HR - Human Rights
IX - investigation
PCP - provision, criteria or practice is a rule, policy, or practice that can put people at a disadvantage based on certain characteristics. The term is used in employment law to assess whether an employer's actions create different outcomes for employees based on their characteristics.
SocMed - social media
SM - Sex Matters
TM – transman (person born female who claims a male gender identity)
TMAM - transmen are men
TW – Transwoman (person born male who claims a female gender identity)
TWAW - transwomen are women
OfS - Once for Scotland
EA - Equality Act 2010
PC - protected characteristic; 9 under EA
RA - risk assessment

nauticant, I salute your indefatigability

@SionnachRuadh please don't make me think of George Galloway at this time of night! (Sorry nauticant)

And as confirmed on the previous thread - ED can also mean Emergency Department!

Jumping on her before I head off to bed. Thanks for the new thread, frustrating as it is with the rapid filibuster efforts. 🙏

TT does a fantastic job but having sight of the witnesses giving evidence allows greater weight to pauses, body language etc.

Seeing the flailing of most of the witnesses since the resumption has been stunning. I would love it if they livestreamed these tribunals via youtube.

Also, the email meta data may well be killer evidence. My experience of public sector data integrity is that it is taken seriously and backed up nightly. The IT guy will probably defend what the data shows re the email chain, i.e. "prove it" as KS requested.

Thank you so much Nauticant 💙💚💛💜

I guess we get a lie in tomorrow as KS is not reporting until 11.30 while the judge and legal teams work on mystery business

Gosh. If you were naive enough to live exclusively on a diet of BBC Be Kind propaganda on this case, you'd have a very different impression of proceedings

https://www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp3le58k858o.amp?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQGsAEggAID#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17532170908593&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com

They seem so ridiculously uncritical of the NHS Fife side of the case.

Placemarking since by the time I wake up tomorrow it will be almost lunchtime your time.

JK Rowling summing up the Dr Searle lunacy.

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1947824186891620495?s=61&t=NHDSDk1MaF98_GOtcuLi0Q

Whats the betting that when (if?) SP is exonerated and NHSF found to be at fault the BBC will lead with headlines and articles talking of "shock" and "surprise". Not for those of us who've been paying attention...

They probably won't report the win.

I got that generic we are impartial email from the BBC after complaining about their headlines - didn’t fully read it. Should likely do and complain again as they are not naming reporters, they are misrepresenting proceedings and they are putting out false headlines. There wasn’t a trans row. There was at best an exchange of words over single sex spaces protected in law.

Checking iin. Thank you @nauticant for your work.

Placemarking

i am finally caught up!! Went to sleep early last night must have been all the extra reading i was doing 😆
bright eyed and bushy tailed and ready for Kate ‘i dont think you can prove that’ Searle!
@nauticant thank you for all of the threads they are informative and helpful and make it easy to keep up to date with the ET ❤️

A good idea for those of us who are thankful to nauticant and who want to follow the topic of this thread.

Pleased to see the off-topic deliberately disrupting derails of yesterday's thread, now have a thread of their own ... www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378486-biological-sex-is-a-multidimensional-variable-with-various-components-discuss?page=3&reply=145884259

I'm getting reallly pissed off with the BBC's reporting on this. What will it take for them to change their approach? Someone who works there going to tribunal? I wonder at their internal environment for women staff.

Just to say it’s worth keeping on at BBC to esclate that initial response to compliant. They said

‘Our coverage of the resumption of the tribunal, which started in February, has been fair, accurate and duly impartial, reflecting the associated issues and arguments put forward by both sides. This piece forms part of our ongoing coverage.

Headlines by their nature can only be a summary of an article and have limited space. We provide further details in the following paragraphs and when read in conjunction with the headline they provide an accurate report. While noting that you take a different view of our coverage, we do not propose making any changes to the article.‘

I’ve asked them via FOI to provide a list of all the headlines in relation to the tribunal - which may give them pause as to their impartiality. I’ve also asked who made the editorial decision not to name their reporters in the coverage and why.

Any journo types know how we could recommend / put forward for an award the Courier and the Herald for their work on this?

@Britinme You don't need to post just to follow a thread. At the top of a thread there is a button you can click called Watch thread. It saves you taking up a post spot.

Lurker, delurking just to give thanks to most for these fantastic informative threads, but especially @nauticant.
For the first time in all 38 threads I skipped the last 8 pages of 37 since it wasn't anything we haven't heard before and is still a pile of shite no matter how my times it's repeated.