NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #28

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25
Thread 26: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5335861-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-26
Thread 27: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5372582-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-27

So many misgenderings by Isla of Beth.

Cripes!

NHS Fife really should have been concentrating on making sure its staff didn't decapitate any more babies or whip out the internal organs of deaf patients without letting them know what the hell was going on, not this costly, time-consuming nonsense. 🙄

IB: I couldn't possibly say anything about where women could or should change.

Also IB: TW must be allowed to use the Ladies!

Also doesn't know her own sex or indeed that of Beth Upton, neither have has their chromosomes tested so however could they tell.

@witchesfly probably worth reading back over the last few pages, as NC has been systematically tying IB in knots

To be fair, NC would make me forget my own name and I share one of them with her.

But IB is flailing like a two year old in a swimming pool.

She's only Band 7 after all, how can they be expected to know all the ins and outs of that sort of thing? That's got to be Band 9 stuff at least

WTF?! I'm not sure I want to know the details behind that comment

This is where I need a 'wtaf' emoji. Really?

Loving Naomi and her email signature questions

Deffo above her unbelievably large pay grade.

From TT

[Discussion re timing]
NC [to bundle] LGBT ally. Why does that appear on your email signature. [missed - sound]
NC positions you on one side of debate
IB I'm an ally to t ppl, doesn't mean I'm not to w
NC If someone added G C ally and suffragette colours to their email - okay
IB It's a ;protected characteristic
NC You don't mark every email with - lists disabled ally, women ally etc
IB No
NC Give impression board's Eq lead that gender reassignment etc is top priority
IB I'm an ally, not necessarily top one
NC But it gives that impression
IB No, don't

I think there's more but I'll leave that there "No, don't"

Yes, really.

Christ. The ship is rotten all over.

NC You don't mark every email with - lists disabled ally, women ally etc
IB No
NC Give impression board's Eq lead that gender reassignment etc is top priority

That is brilliant

At this point I'm inclined to say no she doesn't know what health care is.

In case anyone missed it: Linzi Smith won her case against The Chief Constable of Northumbria for her [the Ch Constable's] attendance at Pride last year. Ruled inappropriate because political or something similar - there's a link to the full ruling on
Page 4 | Linzi Smith is granted Judicial Review over police participation in Pride | Mumsnet

I've lost sound?

IB is reading

@witchesfly

Fucking excellent point.

Shouldn't IB be declaring herself an ally of all the protected characteristics in her email signature as a DEI lead, not just one?

from Herald Scotland
3:45pm
Isla Bumba: I'm a trans ally
NHS Fife's equality and human rights lead signs off her emails with the statement 'LGBT ally', the tribunal hears.
Ms Cunningham suggests this means she is positioned on one side of the debate.
But Ms Bumba says: "It doesn't equate to that as such. "
"I'm an ally to trans people yes, but that doesn't mean I am not an ally to women".
Isla Bumba
Ms Cunningham asks if this suggests that NHS Fife's equality and human rights lead therefore believes the protected characteristics of sexual orientation and gender reassignment r the "most important ones".
In response, Ms Bumba says her email signature does not suggest that it is her "main priority".
"It's a priority but not necessarily the top one," she says.

Pay attention MN

Pronouns in work signatures are about to get cancelled because they leave employers open to accusations of bias.

Good work Naomi.

You've just done sterling work for the next bunch of 'how can I avoid using pronouns in a signature at work' threads.

But that would mean she would have to know all the protected characteristics, and then pretend to care about the boring unsexy ones like Age.