NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #7

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 January 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3

Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4

Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5

Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6

WFTCHTJ

My kids have half-term and are in the kitchen making French onion soup and baguettes. They are also providing tea. I have them well trained!

there is zero chance the transman would escalate as DU has done and every chance that hospital management would make the transman use a third space and support the man

Not true in my experience. School not hospital though.

Have F2F appointments all morning and F2F meetings all afternoon. Am compulsively thread checking to see what’s happening.
@nauticant @Boiledbeetle and anyone else who is watching can I be really cheeky and ask if there’s a new thread there’s a post at/near the top with a quick note to say what is happening e.g going through paper trail or DU giving evidence.
TIA

I’m being thick. Am I asking to join as video + audio or as an observer (in the screen before you are asked for the pin)

If anybody is sat waiting waiting...R4 Womens Hour are going to be interviewing Eleanor Frances, who had a £116k settlement from 2 Whitehall Depts. she'd claimed constructive dismissal after querying HR's stance on gender and sex

They are dealing with netball at the moment

Observer

I will be following on TT and here, not watching online, so thanks to all those who explain what is going on.

Yes, still waiting. I expect they are having to deal with a lot of requests.

WFTCHTJ = waiting for the conference host to join

This is what I don't understand - in 2000 an elderly woman died after allegedly being assaulted by a man on a mixed sex ward at The Vic hospital in Fife (SP's hospital!). There was a scandal and Nicola Sturgeon said that mixed sex wards would be a "thing of the past"... Then they all seem to have forgotten. And that was an actual death. These people have no shame

It will give a potential route for a discrimination claim if they fail to provide single sex facilities. Discrimination claims based on protected characteristics have uncapped damages.

Perhaps more significantly for the NHS is the impact on the Public Sector Equality Duty contained in s149 of the Act. If the PSED relates to biological sex rather than legal sex it’s going to be much harder to justify this sort of behaviour.

This whole situation has come about because most people don't want to complaint and only a small vocal/scary minority have complained - a lot.

And most people don't have the mental stamina to endure the process - see what Mrs Peggie is going through.

BTW why is it Peggie and Dr Upton, and not just Upton?

I have just received my link to view after emailing at 8am this morning.

Can someone post the transcripts of each session please x

It's not possible, the threads move so fast, this is more of a live discussion as we watch the tribunal.

Good morning all. Eagerly awaiting the start. Like lots of you, I'm supposed to be elsewhere but .. um .. I'm here instead.

Can you lot stop talking about food? I'm zero calories till noon and am relying on this to take my mind off it. <panini, brie chocolates,yum 😘>

Aargh - why does Virgin Media have to die today???

WFTCHTJ.

I have a supply of drinks, snacks, and a set of curtains to pin and hem.

New case explainer from Michael Foran:

thecritic.co.uk/the-truth-about-work-single-sex-spaces-and-the-law/

I have to join as video + audio at this point. If I join as an observer I just end up with a blank screen. So if you don't end up in the waiting room when you click observer just come back out and try the other option.

This is the Inner House judgment:
https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/media/l1imtxvx/court-of-session-judgement-reclaiming-motion-by-for-women-scotland-limited-against-the-scottish-ministers-01-november-2023.pdf

Para 56: Those without a GRC remain of the sex assigned to them at birth and therefore would have no prima facie right to access services provided for members of the opposite sex.

Para 65: For the purposes of section 11, individuals without a GRC, whether they have the protected characteristic of gender reassignment or not, retain the sex in which they were born.

This was not appealed by FWS, nor was it cross-appealed by the Scottish Government. It is final and settled law in Scotland (and 'persuasive' in England and Wales). It is also the longstanding position upheld by the EHRC.

The ONLY part of the judgment appealed to the Supreme Court is the part that says a GRC changes a person's sex for the purposes of the Equality Act.

But if you do this, manually disable your camera.

Me too, observer didn't work. To save worrying about where to find the camera off switch in their system, you can turn off camera access at the level of the computer (for windows this is in Settings, search camera) - then allow the web page access to your camera, but it will put up a popup saying it can't find a camera. Which is what you want, anyway.

Previous sessions are on TT's Substack.

https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr

Today's will probably be posted after the sessions have finished, if that's what you mean?

Ooh the anticipation!😂