NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #7

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 January 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3

Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4

Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5

Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6

Image being checked - but white screen with blue text box about recording prohibited and a camera with a slash through it

They did this is in Kennedy Tower at the Royal Edinburgh Hospital too (a university building) - ground floor toilets became 'gender neutral' but University of Edinburgh were too cheap to remove the urinals from the gents or provide sanitary bins. So women are expected to walk past men urinating to get to a stall.
Also shows how sexist the architect was in the original design - 2 urinals and 2 stalls in the mens, 2 stalls in the womens.

Can you give an official link to this info please? Googling this stuff is like a needle in a haystack. Thanks!

Thanks all, have sent email. hope i get the link in time.

I was so very dissapointed that we didnt hear Dr Uptons cross examination on friday but Im now thinking that it might be a good thing as NC has had the whole weekend to look through his account and come up with some bangers in response. Though I appreciate that it wasnt very hard, lots of you guys were doing that live!

I emailed yesterday and have had no response - the dirty little secret that Upton and his team wanted to be heard under a cloud of secrecy.......... no wonder, look at the response. Expect they are inundated.

Morning

Looking forward to the day ahead.

Thanks to Tribunal Tweets and all posters here for sterling work.

I emailed about 4 minutes ago and just got the link

Here and waiting. Watching I’m a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here while I wait.

What’s the standard finishing time? 4pm? That would be 2am for me.

Chances of hearing starting at 10am...

Sorry, given that the judgement isn't out I'm not sure precisely how to do that. It's probably somewhere in the written cases, here: https://forwomen.scot/22/10/2024/uk-supreme-court/
but I'm mostly going on what I remember hearing when I watched it and what was said in the many threads here.
Maybe someone else can be more precise.

For anyone following Tribunal Tweets:

Abbrevs used:
C/SP - Claimant, Sandy Peggie
NC - Naomi Cunningham, C’s barrister
MG - Margaret Gribbons, C’s solicitor
R1/Board - first respondent, Fife Health Board
R2/DU - second respondent, Dr B Upton
JR - Jane Russell, KC, barrister for Rs
AW - Adam Watson, solicitor for Rs
J - Employment Judge Alexander Kemp
ET - Employment Tribunal
P1, P2 - additional panel members
CR - changing room
AE - Accident & emergency department
B&H - bullying and harassment
SocMed - social media
SM - Sex Matters
HR - Human Rights
TW - Transwoman
HI - hate incident
PCP - provision, criteria or practice is a rule/policy/ practice that can put ppl at a disadvantage based on certain characteristics. The term is used in employment law to assess whether an employers actions create different outcomes for employees based on their characteristics.
KS - Kate Searle, DU's supervisor and A&E consultant
ED - Esther Davidson, SP’s line manager
SF - Stuart Fraser, SP’s RCN Rep
AG - Angela Glancy, headed up SP's investigation
IX - investigation
CX or FC - (formal) complaint
DX - disciplinary
FtP - fitness to practice

I expect they have been inundated too. I've not been given the link yet either but I managed to follow on Friday from both TT and MN updates/commentary.

Bring it on.

I'm in the waiting room. OMG so excited. My brie, bacon and chutney pannini ready to go.

Didn't want to address this but the French have it properly worked out in the "aire" free to use rest stations - one I used had the same amount of cubicles for men and women, the difference was that the womens had seats on the loos and a wider rim for the male loos allowing the rim to be sat on - it was a deliberate design thing as women don't piss over the seats, well on limited occasions maybe.

It really isn't my argument, I'm voicing out of frustration that my husband so nearly gets it but then falls at the last hurdle. I want SSS provided. I'm also not bothered if a woman wants to use the men's, that's for them to debate.

Well I wonder what time things will get going today?! Probably around 11 as that’s when I have a call for work, that I can’t get out of. Will be following TT and on here u til I get back in after that.

@Cerialkiller

I would starting eating it now, the chances of it starting on time are a billion to one.

It will go all stale if you wait. 😁

In the pre hearing Case Management Notes this is referred to in full. See page 10 (of 41) line 20-21: "cat called by people thinking she was a woman, then those same people said something which questioned whether she was a woman"

https://sex-matters.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/Redacted-Peggie-Case-Management-Order-06.01.2025.pdf

That seems more like cat calling because she was TW and not because she was a woman. Cat Calling women is very very rare these days - (I am older and invisible which is marvellously like a super power so I am more than happy) - but it seems to have been replaced with lots of staring now if watching male reaction to my DD (14 urgh) is anything to go by

While we're waiting, on the lack of disclosure highlighted on Friday - I work with a team of solicitors at a large organisation (12k+ staff) and can honestly say that we provide all relevant documents for ET purposes, whether they hinder our case or not. Unless it's legally privileged it gets disclosed, and sometimes only the LP bit is redacted and anything in an email trail prior to legal involvement is included.

Having said that, I have hear solicitors state that if people don't want something becoming public knowledge or included in a potential SAR request, then 'delete - delete' is one way of ensuring that. The proviso is that you absolutely can't delete anything once an ET claim has been made.

I'm not sure if I'm in because I've never done this before.

I have an image on the screen about not recording etc. and a voice saying waiting for the host to join, does this sound correct?

That's right.

Enjoy the rich tones of WFTCHTJ man's voice

Thanks for the advice. Panini eaten. Foxes chocolate rounds and cadbury caramel eggs next. Must save some for the actual ET. Im the sort who eats all my snack during the trailers in the cinema....

I feel like i have truly joined the coven now. I know what WFTCHTJ is reffering to.

Perfect. thank you

What does WFTCHTJ stand for?

@FannyCann from this hearing it is completely clear that your DH and his colleagues need to put in a Formal Complaint if they are unhappy about the CR issues at their work. This whole situation has come about because most people don't want to complaint and only a small vocal/scary minority have complained - a lot. Only when we all stand together will everyone get clarity.
#I'mSandie