Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 11

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.
You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)

To come?

Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, to continue on 25th May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge.
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing

Really should let everyone download it now.

I have no idea what she just said. It was all white noise to me.

I'm not loving the reading out, it allows the barrister to put the emphasis on the points they want to, and downplay other parts.

I hate to articulate my thoughts into print but when I first read the title and tag line of the cotton ceiling workshop this is what I assumed: the cotton ceiling was the cotton gusset (of everyday cotton knickers) and breaking through was penetrating through the gusset (barrier) with a penis. I really didn’t want to write that but can I ask is that what others thought to? I am not on Twitter and am confused as to why the barristers think this is ok?

Ha! It was pump in my house too!!! Though my cousins used to say ah, bisto!!!

Wainwright just said ‘hugged it out’. This is going to be fun.

Have I really just been reading that homosexuality is like apartheid, and that lesbians need a Nelson Mandela figure to guide them out of it? Are U2 doing a benefit gig?

CM: The workshop 'overcoming the cotton ceiling' was about strengthening relationships between the two groups and nothing to do with coersion.

If you want to strengthen relationships with another group, don't bloody start with 'how to make unwilling females get their pants off, lie back and think of Stonewall'.

'Learn to cope'. Fuck Off. Run a fucking mile from any prospective sexual partner, of whatever sex or gender, who demonstrates so little care or respect for you as that. Head for the fucking hills.

Current witness:
Tom Wainwright - barrister at GCC (member of Chambers, area of practice - crime), member of GCC Transrights Working Group
www.gardencourtchambers.co.uk/barristers/tom-wainwright/sao
Role in case: complained to Ms Hakl-Law about AB's invovlement with LGB Alliance, said it was damaging to GCC, asked what could be done.
Bio: "Tom has a formidable reputation as a passionate defender and a strong advocate.
He has appeared in some of the most high-profile cases of recent years including the Colston statue topplers, the Hatton Garden burglary, the ‘Stansted 15’ protestors and representing the father of Jack Letts in his trial for funding terrorism. Tom has a particular interest and experience in Serious Fraud and Confiscation, Protest Cases, Terrorism, and Criminal Appeals.
He is regularly instructed as Leading Junior Counsel in high-profile cases of significant complexity and legal importance. Tom is qualified under the 'Direct Access' scheme and is able to take instructions directly from the public in appropriate cases."
"He is one of the go-to people for protest work as he has been working at the coalface for many years."
CHAMBERS UK, 2022 (PROTEST LAW, BAND 1)
"He is excellent in terms of his preparation and able to carve out the best route for the client in the face of pretty difficult cases."
CHAMBERS UK, 2022 (CRIME)
"Tom is extremely intelligent, a fearless advocate and uniquely effective at communicating with vulnerable clients sensitively and clearly."
LEGAL 500, 2022 (CRIME)
"Tom is a fiercely bright counsel with a reassuring client manner."
LEGAL 500, 2022 (FRAUD)
"Very experienced. He's like a terrier - he doesn't give up."
CHAMBERS UK, 2021 (PROTEST LAW, BAND 1)

I would not want to be a female or homosexual anywhere near these people as colleagues or as barristers, poor Allison. And yet they're so bloody proud of what they fondly think of as their values of inclusion and righteousness.

Yes, they're all very proud that they think 2+2=5 but they're not that keen on BC asking them to explain exactly how 2+2=5 and what reasoning led them there.

Comparing the same sex attraction of lesbians to racism really is shocking. I don't think anyone who holds that view should be on an ethics committee and is definitely not qualified to deal with any issues which involve lesbians (of course seemingly 'lesbian' is being redefined to describe any person who is attracted to any other person - a convenient way to erase homophobia).

Yeah, JR gets on my tits too.

Real 'Head Girl' vibes.

Just about everyone willing to think about the meaning of the term, and willing to tell the truth, thinks the same as you ZandathePanda.

The best thing she could have done for that fee was not to re-examine. A witness is unlikely to contradict themselves in re-examination, and if they do, the fact of the contradiction is itself unhelpful. It is far more likely that a witness, relieved that cross examination is over and the question has come from "their" barrister, will drop their guard and blether on, doubling down on whatever you were haplessly trying to get them to correct.

BC catches TW in a lie right out of the gate?

He’s grim.

@Beowulfa no it's the opposite - CM was saying that transwomen need a Nelson Mandela figure to overcome the apartheid-like lesbians!

TW seems really angry, huffing and very clipped yes and no's.

TW is quite casual isn't he?

I wonder if that's his usual demeanour?

Oh thank god for that. Was worth the yuckiness of having to write that down for the realisation I did not have a perverted twisted interpretation.

He's very defensive to the point of aggression.

TW is a bit defensive and confrontational, isn't he?

Fucking hell, as a straight white woman finding this absolutely jaw dropping and infuriating, I can only imagine how Allison would feel. The racism comparison is sickening. I missed the anti semitism exchange if anyone has time later to elaborate? I realise this is very fast moving. Surely these witnesses are actually a "help" to Ben, as they actually prove his fucking points?!

The coercion stuff is deeply disturbing. So no means no is actually no means no but it's OK to try and coerce you if I want to, oh and I'll compare you to a racist whilst coercing you.

Fuck OFF.

Anyway, hopefully cheering for you all, DD sent me a photo of the mirror in the "gender neutral" (of course) toilets at uni, with a big "Dykes Don't Do Dick" sticker.

Arms folded, already...

Consent isn't a complicated thing to get your head around, fella.

Not watching, just listening and just heard an angry tone enter witness' voice.