NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #40

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38
Thread 39: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378747-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-39

This is the best way of using up a lot of courgettes, perfect on a cheese or ham or egg sandwich, or can even replace the dressing in a salad (when you forget to take some to work but there's a handy jar of pickles in the fridge). I don't put the courgettes and onions in salted water, I sprinkle salt on them, let it sit for an hour and then let them drain in a colander with a weigh on top over night.
https://www.browneyedbaker.com/zucchini-refrigerator-pickles-recipe/

Yes indeed and how an effort to balance rights rather than efface yourself to the wall of GI would have not produced the enormous backlash which is a the inevitable consequence of authoritarian ideology in a democracy.

It’s the desire to think so binararily (madie uppie word sorry) by so many where there is only a good and a bad that is so shocking to me. I grew up in a world of debate. Such debate was how you learned where balance might lie. You would learn to weigh things up and find that balance.

The link to WPATH SoC 8 is still there.

https://ncth.nhs.uk/other-gp-guidance

This is the document that led to NHS Scotland's internal investigation and reporting themselves to Police Scotland.

Seems NHS Engalnd are fine with it, though.

PMK

Is the sobbing & shaking a new thing now? Do we TERFs have to devote a few hours a day to it?

It’s just I don’t know if I’d have the time what with a very busy job & stuff.

i wonder how KS feels waking up this morning compared to Tuesday when she looked determined to tell the Tribunal what’s what & don’t forget Be Kind Bitches.

Good morning hags 😁 hope you are all well ❤️

i was feeling KS didnt get what she deserved fully yesterday and was feeling a but like what if this isnt going as well as we think it is going but JKR’s tweet put things in perspective for me.. SP has won regardless of the verdict and i feel much better for reading it!

@nauticant thank you for the thread!!

im ready for more things to go SP way today!! Bring it on 😁

Maybe none replied as they don’t rate KS that highly. Bet her reputation amongst the consultants gang must be a laughing stock now after stating that she can identify sex without running tests. Bet some of them are all over social media.

I like to think that maybe there are some MN readers/participants on the staff who are reading out the more pithier comments to all during any breaks 😂

Morning. Thank you @nauticant for the absolute stellar job of thread continuation.

Hen fact.
A young hen is called a pullet. So if I had a Cockerell in one hand and a young hen in the other I could hold my cock and pullet ( ba dum dum tish)
Anyway hens can hold a grudge against another hen and will purposely seek to annoy said hen. It can get petty such as sitting on the others egg and refusing to move.

Ive scrolled through pages and pages of comments and still can’t find it… What time does the hearing start today?

also a Scottish link - Colin Hay (lead singer of Men At Work) was born in North Ayrshire, emigrated to Australia at 14.

Are you telling me he doesn't, in fact, come.from a land down under?

"I moved to a land down under" doesn't have quite the same ring to it.

In Australia, Scotland IS down under right?

So confusing.

I'm thinking they had a 'Shaddap You Face' style one hit wonder in the early eighties.

This took me down a rabbit hole that led me to this Legs & co video for Hands Up (Give Me Your Heart)

I have been most interested in the questions the judge/panel ask to get an idea of how they are seeing things.

Judge had a lot of questions for KS yesterday, I think she would have found that intimidating as she was told that wasn’t the question asked at least once and had to narrow her answer.

I recall with isla bumba, the judge made a comment after she said she hasn’t seen the changing room, that she doesn’t know what she’s talking about. I suggest little weight would be given to her evidence as a result.

We've been banging on about WPATH for years and no bugger ever seems to listen. If I was an investigative journalist I'd be bloody well digging into it.

An international.network that influences healthcare so strongly, with links to Eunuch fetishists and child abusers? I'd be all over it myself.

But there you go. I guess it's as far fetched sounding as the Zizian trans vegan murder cult.

😂

Yep I think it's tempting to wish for KS to face the music immediately during the cross examination. It has been anticipated for almost 6 months now.

Yesterday is only part one. We have NC's summing up soon (if we don't extend again). Then we have the judgement.

After each of these we have the press reports and political sketches, none of which are likely to be over kind.

KS should have thought about using a lang spoon.

I think the intention was to start at 10am, but we know how that’s been working out!

Do we think yesterday’s reporting by the BBC was a one-off, or do you think they have noticed that everybody is commenting on how odd and out of step with the newspapers it has been?

I think the Tickle v Giggle re-match is due very soon, although I don't know whether it's televised. Any Aussies or Kiwis about this morning?

Maybe that’s how the TRAs operate. They swing from violent threats and moob protests, to calling us hags and TERFs to sobbing and howling.

Whereas in the real world we work, look after kids/elderly parents, do the chores and spend hours on mumsnet for a giggle.

Life has made us much more resilient. How annoying for the little diddums.

It definitely gives you an idea of where the Judges head is at, but you just never know he will know what a big case this is and the fallout for the NHS if SP wins and i just hope he is a straight down the middle Judge and comes to the same conclusion we all have that these management types are so eager to be seen as kind and progressive that they have forgotten that women have rights aswell like the right not to have to get change in front of a man regardless of how he identifies this is basically work enforced sexual harassment and it stinks of corruption even if SP comes across sternly and without ‘kindness’ she and the other up to 200 nurses still have rights too!!

Last night after reading about KS's responses, tears, claims of 'but I'm a kind person!' (and previous claims to be honest ahem) the song Too Bad was on repeat in my head,

"Too Bad"

Too bad that you had to get caught
That's not like you to lose face
So sad that you're not as smart
As you thought you were in the first place

The later 'hide-away', 'get-away', and '.45 good bye' not as appropriate of course.
1

Been thinking about the oft repeated claim by NHS Fife witnesses that they were in the right because no one else complained and the phrase which I have often seen used to frame legal proceedings — ‘the absence of evidence is not evidence’.

Is that actually how legal minds think? Will that factor into the panel? I see from the MoD judgement that it was quite clear others wouldn’t come forward because of hostility but there were a few hints here and there that there were others that held same GC fees as claimant.

I think it is gonna be live streamed i am sure i read that on X the other day!!