NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #40

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38
Thread 39: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378747-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-39

Naomi is brilliant (I feel like a fan girl 😀).

Is there any way to send her a card of appreciation ?

JR - ms jack in the box again

From TT

JR - I notice the witness is getting confused with pronouns [reads from bar standards benchbook] says u should use pronouns that are preferred. I say NC constant misgendering is creating a hostile environment and witnesses not used to hearing DU referred to as he/him. Its clearly discombobulating the witness and im concerned she cant give best evidence. I ask u to note my concerns and ask NC to reflect on her language used in court

J - [to NC] do u want to sya anything, time to reflect?

NC - no

NC lets the economy of her answer speak for itself. The Ring seems to approve, tho it's hard to say why I think that. A precious thing, The Ring. Very precious.

Fifer : dis she fuck. Mebbe it's the pronouns. Aye let's say it's that and move forrit.

NC - DU says 'can I refer to my notes' and u say absolutely. So at that point hes talking about referring to his notes. Can u tell what sort of notes? Notebook, phone?
AG - referred to his phone, her phone sorry
NC - and he would have sent u screenshots
AG - didn't think i needed to ask for those and DU told me what I needed
NC - refer to page 453. Email from u on 13th may after the meeting. U ask sensible follow up Q about who was present at patient care incident. Read that and I'll ask a Q

NC - fair to say his answer is slightly vague. SP working with nights a week. U didnt even find out how many shifts theyd coincided on?
AG I checked 18th December and whether Healthcare support worker was on shift
J - on resus incident u were asking if u checked shifts?
AG - no
NC - I suggest DU was giving clear steer not to ix
AG - I did i spoke to SP about it
NC - I suggest it wasnt true and wouldnt turn out to be true if u checked. Could be career ending if turned out wasnt true?

The Ring seemed to shimmer, but then as if it remembered that it's pretending to be just A Ring not The Ring, stopped. It didn't blerp out another Orange flicker, perhaps it wanted to but computed now was not the moment

AG - if i was to discover further ix about witnesses was needed id do so
NC - DU provided name of healthcare assistant who he said had witnessed the incident and u interviewed RA on 5th July
AG - yes

Go judge you tell JR!

He's not impressed

I have a Ron Moody earworm for this witness.

“I was reviewing the suspension”

Sarah Robles. A perfect response!

I can offer to describe in great detail top down basement construction and building on previously contaminated land if you want!

Don't worry I'm not going to!

from herald
12:28pm
Ms Cunningham asks whether the information from the alleged resuscitation incident - where Ms Peggie was accused of walking out on a patient when Dr Upton walked in - was very limited.
Ms Glancey said it was fair to suggest that Dr Upton could not remember who else was on shift.
Ms Cunningham said there was a "clear steer" from Dr Upton not to investigation the resuscitation incident further - and Ms Glancey took this steer.
But Ms Glancey said she did investigate further and spoke to Ms Peggie about it.
Ms Cunningham suggests that Ms Glancey knew the allegations were not true and would not check out if investigated.

Her Chambers’ address is:
The Outer Temple
222 Strand
London
WC2R 1BA

Ooh, the judge telling JR off for blundering in with her infuriating, condescending and now annoyed manner.

I have suggested donations to Sex Matters, of which NC is Chair, which we did en masse in Feb.
donate page on their website.
I emailed them last week to say any mysterious uptick in anonymous donations would be us-I'll post their reply here when I get it.

I’m currently wearing the t-shirt with that on the front from Birdy Rose.

I would like there to be a reaction that isn't 'like, love or thanks' as none of them are suitable for this post, or the previous one regarding sexual harassment. As a fellow survivor who has experienced similar in two very different organisations, I would like to send you both understanding, support and white hot anger that the vast majority of women have to deal with this crap, with their mental health destroyed and absolutely no resolution or even recourse to justice.

At last!

Thankyou. Also, the Fife hospital.address. is it likely cards will still reach her if they are sent there?

Edit- I mean to Sandie.

C - I'll try a different way. RA evidence to u was a flat contradiction to what DU told u?
AG - yes was different to what DU said

RAs account was in flat contradiction to DUs?? Is that right?

I'm confused. The supreme court says males cannot use female facilities. This means we can ask males to leave.
Why is there any discussion on Sandie walking out when she could legally have asked him to leave?
I thought Sandie took this to court and not Upton and the SC judgement should be relevant here.

from herald
12:31pm
We hear about Ms Glancey's interview of Rehana Ashraf, the healthcare assistant who was present during the patient safety incident relating to a patient walkout.
Ms Cunningham said her testimony was a "flat contradiction" to Dr Upton's account.
Ms Ashraf said a conversation had occurred between Dr Upton and Ms Upton.
Whereas, Dr Upton had said Ms Peggie refused to communicate with the medic.
Ms Glancey agrees that this was different to Dr Upton.

Bingo! One of the final nails from NC. Proves beyond doubt that KS testimony about the secret witness was all lies.

There was a whole load of March created at that time by the artist Birdy Rose. Maybe it's time to bring them back?!

I would send cards to Sandie via Naomi, or her solicitor. Unfortunately I don’t know the solicitor’s surname, so can’t look up her practice address.

The SC judgment wasn't relevant then.

From the Scotsman, JR
asks for her concerns to be noted and “makes a plea to Ms Cunningham to reflect on her language and duty of civility in the court”.
The judge asks Ms Cunningham if she has anything to say about this or wants time to reflect. She says no and continues her cross-examination using the pronouns he/him for Dr Upton.

😂

Margaret Gribbon I think