NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #40

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38
Thread 39: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378747-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-39

Please note the herald has typed Ms Upton instead of Ms Peggie above (not changed yet on their website- am just copying across)

Afternoon, hags. Bloody hell, keeping up with these threads is a full time job!

From TT:

JR interrupts
J - u need to object not just interrupt

JR is clutching at straws, we've had wittering about pronouns (surely this was agreed in round 1?) and now she's just randomly interjecting and pissing off the judge.

Something I missed earlier as I only got logged in mid-morning, there was reference to evidence having been presented that The Fragrant Doctor had "form" for being difficult to work with. What was this evidence?

Indeed it is, KS has been lying through her teeth to protect DU, and to defame SP. Absolutely despicable behaviour from a senior medic.

Page 720

from herald
12:34pm
We are now hearing that Dr Searle was told it was "not ideal" for her to be present during Dr Upton's interview with Ms Glancey.
Dr Searle was told she would be interviewed first.
Ms Cunningham said Ms Glancey must have been aware that a lot of discussion had already taken place between Dr Searle and Dr Upton regarding the Christmas Eve incident.
Ms Glancey said she was not aware but said she knew the pair were close.

Yes, I don’t think the NHS would take kindly to an influx of hospital mail coming for Sandie under the circumstances. I’d imagine it’s something they would have meetings about to reduce, as they might not see it as their job to manage high volumes of her personal post. No point potentially causing her more hassle if she remains working there, especially as we know she works part time so not regularly collecting mail.

NC - were u aware KS had been communicating with other consultants?
AG - no

Do consultants get thrown under taxis rather than buses, in which case 'Taxi for Dr Searle!'

There was an inset box in a Daily Mail article which detailed that Upton had previously complained about patients misgendering him etc (in previous posts) but not sure if this is in the bundle/is evidence or just hearsay.

JR is assuming NC is going to suggest AG was also upping the anti and trying to de-escalate beforehand.

Clearly there is a huge difference between ‘having it out’ and ‘saying something.’

P45 for Dr Searle more like!

If Angela Glancy has seen the bundle ahead of time, surels KS also saw it and should have known, if she read it that the witness she interfered with was already on record with the opposite evidence than KS wanted? So the sobbing and wailing as if she had only just realised was due to what?

I am shocked! Shocked I tell thee!

From TT

NC - [reads] What she told u about was a convo between DU and SP about a child going missing. That is a clear contradiction of what DU said as he said he wouldn't interact and this evidence of a convo.

JR interrupts

NC - RA told u a convo had happened...

JR interrupts

J - u need to object not just interrupt

BIG SOND WILL HAVE DECORUM

NC - I'll try a different way. RA evidence to u was a flat contradiction to what DU told u?
AG - yes was different to what DU said

Fifer : boom boom boom. The U(pton) Boat hull has cracked wi these depth cherges. Achtung. ALARM.

NC - now Q on confidentiality. Turn to 184. That's your email to KS inviting her to ix meeting. [Reads 'aboid discussing case'] Thats is standard instruction?

AG - yes and important it stays confidential

NC - 2 reasons important - fairness to person being ixed and other that witnesses dont talk to each other and get stories straight

AG - fairness and integrity yes

At the word 'integrity' The Ring turns a sarcastic shade of mauve, then returns to hifi-separate grey-black.

NC [reads]
NC - can u help 'ive asked her' who is that
AG - Beth
NC - u are suggesting DU and KS speak to each other About investigation
AG - no about the meeting.
KS is support. I spoke to KS first so she wasnt present in DU interview

NC - u say 'we understand she has a good relationship with u'
AG - yes line manager
NC - were u aware KS had been communicating with other consultants?
AG - no

Fifer : noo that's an unfortunate situation. In cherge ae investigatin a fake investigation that's a bustit flush afore ye even got the email. N it wisnae even yer job job ken, ken?

Which rather goes to show what I've suspected since Rehana was first mentioned yesterday, in that she was a witness to the incident Upton claimed had happened but would have disproved Upton's version of events.

Thank you.

Margaret Gribbon
Bridge Employment Solicitors
Radleigh House,
1 Golf Road,
Clarkston,
Glasgow, G76 7HU

It is surely not usual for it to be 'well known' a senior female consultant is particularly 'close' to a male junior dr, however he identifies?

@SidewaysOtter JR interrupts
J - u need to object not just interrupt

JR was almost shouting. Could be described as an outburst.

The judge was not impressed at all. Basically told her he's in charge here. (In other words)

NC - You'll know by now KS had been vigorously briefing colleagues about SP since December. I can take u to them.

Margaret Gribbon. In Glasgow I believe.

JR must be wishing NC in hell at this point.

All that booing and hissing of adversarial barristers in court is usually borne of a desire to win cases for their own personal achievement record and professional competitiveness. In this sole area you do get the sense that things go well beyond the professional and into the deeply personal.

I watched some footage of NC last night, commenting on how the law according to Stonewall et al is not the law as it appears on the statute books. But it's still broadly publicly believed that the law according to Stonewall is the law according to the law (confused yet? That's the idea, I think).

How the hell they've got away with it this long beats the shit out of me.

Did the judge not state at the beginning that each person can use whichever pronouns they want to describe themselves and others?

I thought it had been established that witnesses can't see the bundle in advance. They could change their testimony if they saw other people's evidence

I'm surprised the judge is not thinking about lunch yet. I'm .getting peckish.
And JR seems to be fractious and in need of a glass of milk and a bikkie..

Right…whaaaaat was going on between BU and KS?!? 🤣🤣 their professional relationship seems weird af. If I was BU’s wife….well, I mean this would’t be the first question I had, but I’d now have a bunch of additional ones 😅

from herald
12:40pm
Were the rules 'bent' to 'indulge' Dr Upton by allowing Dr Searle to sit in on her interview?
She said no. It was to allow Dr Upton to be supported as the medic had requested this. This was not a departure from normal procedure, she said.
12:39pm
Ms Cunningham asks whether she should have shut down any discussion between Dr Upton and Dr Searle.
She said she had already instructed them not to discuss the case.
Ms Glancey also did not know that Dr Searle had contacted 19 consultant colleagues.
Ms Cunningham said Dr Searle had been "vigorously" briefing colleagues about the incident involving Dr Upton and Ms Peggie - but did not report this to investigators.
Ms Glancey said she has seen the bundles. She is asked whether the investigation had been compromised before it had even begun.
She said her investigation had not been compromised because she had not seen the emails at the time of the probe.