NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #40

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38
Thread 39: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378747-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-39

@battymaggot full-on CUAS here! Have spent all morning racing to catch up. Still in my PJs and desperate for a shower.

This just conjured up such a hilarious picture for me, like some weird computer game where once in they're just banging against the walls unable to leave. Certainly explains a lot about waiting times and the NHS staffing crisis. Turns out there's plenty of them, they're all just stuck in the changing rooms so as not to offend anyone. Brilliant 🤣

J asks NC if she wants to say anything. No.
Do you want time to reflect?
NC replied crisply No, thank you.

J giving JR's intervention the consideration it deserves.

Actually, AG is now flustered as a result of JR's intervention because she's now afraid to make a mistake. That was a bit of DARVO by JR.

Judge asks Naomi if she'd like to reflect (on JRs suggestion she reflect on her use of wrong (correct) pronouns.

Naomi - Nope

Judge says right let's move on then 😂

From herald
12:21pm
Ms Russell's interjection came after Ms Cunningham asked Ms Glancey why she did not ask Dr Upton for the medic's full statement, despite Dr Upton offering this in an email in April.
Ms Cunningham asked if it was correct there were "two versions" of the statement.
Ms Glancey later takes up Dr Upton's offer of the additional details about patient safety.

My God, it's like something from 1984.

If women aren't happy changing in front of men, there's no recourse because the lady mens is entitled. So if women self exclude to avoid the situation, well no that's not on either, that's a micro aggression and women must be punished.

Truly terrifying.

AG - referred to his phone, her phone sorry

I've had a twinge of sympathy for her!

Yes it was the first time she corrected herself from saying he to she!

This one, I think -

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4233220-University-staff-given-list-of-banned-microinsults-they-cannot-say-to-trans-people

Judge to NC ‘do you want to say anything, time to reflect?’ (about the alleged misgendering - NC ‘no’. Bloody love it 😂

from herald
12:22pm
Since we have resumed after Ms Russell's interjection, it's important to note that Ms Cunningham has not changed her approach and still refers to Dr Upton as "he" during the hearing.

So it's JR who had now created the hostile environment for the witness that she accused NC of causing.

Misgendering

TT 1222

NC - DU says 'can I refer to my notes' and u say absolutely. So at that point hes talking about referring to his notes. Can u tell what sort of notes? Notebook, phone?
AG - referred to his phone, her phone sorry
NC - and he would have sent u screenshots

Thank you. Is there no subject about which at least one Mumsnetter can give detailed and knowledgeable advice?

That's all it takes, for one woman to say NO to all of this madness...

NC obviously has an Inner Voice that at these points says
'Leave it, Naomi, it's not werf it'😁

Yep. And of course, a bully will be the first to recognise that crying 'I'm being bullied!'; pointing to their victims as the real abusers; puts them automatically in the right.

DARVO at its finest.

I thought they’d already had the argument and NC said from the off she would be using pronouns based on sex not GI.

We are many 😂

I actually guffawed! I think that's what I did anyway 😂

To quote m'learned friend: NO!

😂

Reminds me of the “No thank you” given by the female weightlifter when asked to comment on Lauren Hubbard.

She's simply awesome.

Ed. to say - a meme is needed ...