NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #38

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37

Is there a full quote or explanation, e.g. a sentence from an email that includes 'foot in mouth'?

I'm absolutely not a misogynist, but I don't believe that SP was the victim in this situation and I believe the purpose of that witness was to present evidence of that.

Yes. Putting myself in her shoes I could imagine Sandie was more outraged and angry than upset - which I can understand, given managers weren't enforcing her legal right to a single sex space.

She knows nothing
She sees nothing
She hears nothing
She thinks nothing .....

sorry - x post with everyone else!

Don't make me get the spay bottle!

Spritz spritz spritz

😉

that's it. 5 min break

5 min break

Which is nice but the context is that being in the cabal of 6 she was part of a cover up. So it's sort of some cover-ups that she's bang-to-rights on she'll admit and others where the evidence is not 100% she'll deny.

From TT

NC - you aren't HR but generally
LH - in case of bias or ....
NC - email establishes group on 5th Jan, were you asked to look for emails in Feb?
Lh- can't remember date but yes
NC - how often asked?
LH - twice I think
NC - when?
LH - don't know
NC - aware of hearing?

NC circles the Email Thread Seven like an Apache gunship. Which of them will break cover and make a run for it? That nose-mounted law cannon will brrrt them up with extreme legality.

NC probably waiting to be called.
LH - I don't remember dates well, I was asked to look a coupld of times
JR - she said I think so.
NC - you didn't turn up when asked the email at 1253 presumably? Or did you?
LH - can't remember, sorry, I shared everything I was copied into

NC (mentally) - did ye, aye? Why am a thinking in Fife, been here too long.

NC and you were cc'd into this, is there a reason you didn't
LH - don't know
NC anyone ask you to keep it quiet?
LH - no

The noise of the Legal Gunship goes quieter. Did it move away or is it just higher up?

NC - to 359, you were asked to remind SP about confidentiality due to IX, due to MC foot in mouth email, the point of saying that can't be because of integrity of ix it was already compromised... missing
NC - you are one of 2 most jr people, the most senior should have been concerned, but did you think it was an appropriate thing for MC to do?

NC gives her the out, cough up the doctors before they cough on you.

LH - unless I have an action, I tend not to consider it.
NC - all the senior managers knew all about everything the only person being told not to discuss was sandie. True?
LH - we were all told not to discuss, only these emails
NC - no more Qu
J - nothing, any reexam?
JR - no
JR - 5 min break?
J - yes.
BREAK

Fifer : well well well.

Hello Beth....

TT's part 1 afternoon tweets

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1947988433592369629.html

Please not there were none from the morning session.

LH says she doesn't pay attention unless there's an action for her in the email, and I understand that (have done it myself) - you're a busy person, patients to see, you skim the email for your name in case you've been asked to do something, otherwise you pay little attention to the contents.

Yes from TT:

NC It talks about the Ix, and how ED will be the investigator, it appears to be to set and coordinate a group of ppl who shldnt be talking to each other as witnesses. It talks about info not leaving the group and foot in mouth syndrome. it's serious isnt it?

We all know the path to supremacy is victimhood in this thought process.

I think this witness was a mistake by JR - added nothing to the respondents' case and gave NC the gift of being able to reiterate the dodgy e-mail collusion

Imagine thinking a woman who was bullied and harassed for not getting naked in front of a naked male, while in a state of period distress and absolute vulnerability, is 'not the victim' but the predatory male is, and claiming you're not a misogynist. smdh

It's like, I'm not racist, but...

Why are they having another break? They have only been going for half hour.

I think it's a phrase in the email that caused all the fuss yesterday - the one that was missed in first disclosure when the rest of the thread was submitted. So lots of emails "RE: Investigation" (not the actual subject) in first disclosure; and then an individual email "Investigation" in the second batch, which has been severed from the rest of the thread.

I think LH is JRs witness and perhaps fitted in now because an additional witness who isn’t easily available for ET.

I think JR called her as a witness to set up a line of argument that because SP didn’t perform upsetness in the middle of an A&E night shift that NC can’t argue a detriment.

Clearly ridiculous as per the admirable earlier posts.

And rather than cross exam solely on that point it gives NC an opportunity to dig further into why that email was not originally disclosed.

It really is hard to believe that 6 professionals all failed to find and disclose the exact same smoking gun email/chain without some element of collusion.

Wild, No further questions no panel qus no re-exam. 5 min break.

NC asked if it was right that all senior consultants, nurses and line managers were in email chain but Sandie Peggie was only one not allowed to discuss case.

LH says no. They were all told to have no discussions and there were no discussions.

Seemed to me that a meek- sounding older woman doing a softly spoken Bill Clinton IMO. "I did not have sexual relations with that woman".

Not sure if she expects that to save her job or if she has always fancied a day out at NMC HQ.

I’m pretty sure for the sake of her mental health she would not dream of venturing on mumsnet

Oh good, I'm only 689 posts behind. Doesn't sound too bad if you say it fast enough ..

The whizzing is a mistake. You are making GRUEL. You can do 2 handfuls of oats 2 eggs and some cottage cheese with a chopped banana and very heavily cinnamoned apple, bit of milk to loosen up, raisins for sweetness, bake at 180 for 30-45 mins and this is edible. Attempts at pancakes always turn out terrible imo.

I hear chocolate baked oats are The Dog’s but I have doubts.