NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #38

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37

Maybe because doctors are used to writing letters? The nhs is quite a dinosaur in that respect.

Thanks - JR didn't have many qq, did she? I wasn't expecting x-exam so soon!

Latin background here. Always use 're' in its latin sense to mean pertaining to. Not my problem email has come along...

Right but in this case SP is trying to claim shes a victim, whereas the evidence appears to suggest - or jp is trying to show- that the person most victimised by this confrontation was DU .

I do quite like it when people hold on to these things - and know why.

From descriptions of the witness, and the judge offering breaks, I think she might not be well, so they're going quickly. Also, she doesn't seem to be very involved (despite being one of SPs line managers)

From TT

LH - safety brief at start, after asked for conv. went to office. said been sent an email, aksed to pass on message - scotland workforce policy to not discuss with anyone but representative to protect her confidentiality.
JR - what did SP say?
LH - told me she'd been advised by lawyer she should be discussing to try and get support.
JR - what do you think she meant, discussing case?
LH - looking for support internally
JR - said to her?
LH - its a supportive measure, passing on message.
JR - her reaction?
LH - upset, frustrated and a bit angry
JR - what happened next?
LH - I asked her about her wellbeing, didn't know what else to say. Not sure how I was meant to react
JR - she said?
LH - thought it was strange at work as people weren't discussing it, I said people trying to maintain professionalism.
JR - were you involved with this matter after that? the IX?
LH - no
JR - qu from NC

Fifer : as tae whit's happened tae Dr Searle, you're guess is as guid as mine min. Ah fuckin scoobied, ken.

NC - Hello, just a few qu. Role of ED as investigator. Turn to 1253. email from MC consultant to a small group with you and ?? you two are the most jr members of group
LH - yes
NC - PC subject line, refers to foot in mouth syndrome. Ref to ED unable to do investigation, that's right isn't it not appropriate.
LH - I don't know

(leaves it there on the record, moves on)

NC - 729 please. you were cc'd on email from KS of 12th Jan,
LH - yes
NC - first line to DU, KS says ED has taken lead.
LH - yes
NC - you may not know, but seems same people, with DU on the list were sent mail that ED was IX
NC - the people on the chain knew it shouldn't be here, know why?
LH - no
NC - new page. Setting up by MC as an inner circle discussion group. Can see no traffic on chain between 5th and 12th, no replies to that email. Recall any? LH - no
NC - were you asked, sorry
NC - turn to 336, that's a letter 12th april to SP introducing AG as investigator, says in the mean time avoid talking to people other than rep for privacy. SP has been told in April she mustn't discuss IX. Why would that be? WItnesses told not to discuss?

Is the witness unwell maybe? Perhaps that’s why she’s up now and pushing through quickly.

From yesterday:

NC The way this is presented with nothing but yr signature and nothing below, gives the impression yr email of 12 Jan was the start of an email chain?
KS Yes
NC Do you normally write Re: in a subject line?
No
NC Do u ever?
I dont know

True, but he framed it as being upset because he’s quite skilled at manipulation and it suits his idea of womanhood

Naomi is like a dog with a bone over these emails. She must have an email or something concrete otherwise it's a risky strategy to try to hope a witness messes up.

Everyone knows she was pretty junior in the cabal of 6 and passive rather than being one of the prime movers.

This is a deeply misogynistic viewpoint which espouses that women must behave in a certain way if we are to believe they are a victim.

Hopefully posters will stop suggesting it’s common practice to manually write “Re” now that the author themselves cleared up they didn’t do that.

I see a trap coming up very soon. NC appears to be expecting their responses and is giving a lot of time to the email chains...

The 're' = 'about' thing is Latin.

'Res' means thing/matter/business. If you start a story 'in medias res' that means 'in the middle of the action', implying there'll be a flashback later to explain how we got to eg. Walter White in an out of control bus full of dead drug dealers in his undercrackers.

'Re' is the ablative case which is used for 'about' or 'concerning'.

So 'in re <subject>' (or just 're <subject>') means 'concerning the matter of <subject >'.

It's an old fashioned usage these days, but it's distinct from 'reply'.

Sounds like Sandie wasn't doing 'woman' properly?

Well I've learned something new today, I thought "re" meant regarding. ie "Regarding your email yesterday. (Re: your email yesterday)."

Mmmm! oh to be in Naomi's head right now!

Isn’t ‘circa’ used for the other meaning of ‘about’ i.e. ‘approximate’, particularly re time?

Love that NC is calling the email the 'foot in mouth' email.

Let me guess, if you found someone standing and crying, whilst holding a bloody knife, whilst someone in shock was emoptionless and still as they lay at the crybullies feet as they bled out, the crybully bloke with the knife would be the victim?

I use 'circa' to mean 'approximately'.

LH struggles with recall but definitely wasn't asked to cover up the email of doom.

I thought so too, despite doing Latin at school. My teacher would be most disappointed with me.