NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #38

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37

From TT

We begin.
Big Sond (Judge) - before we start - considered press release of 18 jul, addressed in submission. No order in realtion to it. Can sit late if needed. Assume you are Miss Harris. Which oath?
Takes oath.
J - explains need for slow answers and speaking up

Fifer : is confused, in Fifer. "Haud on a wee meenit, whit's the hamden roar here ken?"

JR - full name
(LH) Lauren Harris
JR - how long at fife
(LH) 27 years this year
JR - job title
LH - dual role nurse educator and snr charge nurse
JR - what does it involve?
LH - managing staff on shift. day to day incidents, looking after staff.
JR -if you need a break do ask

Fifer : aye nae hurry hen, we're twa days ahent schedule but deh mind that ken

<hangs head in luddite shame>

I've had a busy morning of parsnip stout bottling. Have there been any big developments in the last couple of hours? I make oat pancakes quite often, but no need for the blender. Just beat up porridge oats, milk and an egg and pinch of salt and a bit of melted butter. Best to leave for half an hour or to soak, then beat again, cook like any drop scone, and eat with golden syrup. I bung a bit of cinnamon in too.

Are you relatively young? We used to add it manually to the top of letters. Old fashioned ones that didn’t add their own subject lines!

It’s unsurprising that some people still feel the need to add it themselves.

I'm on browser and have always had green for OP and pink for me. Never had the app. Diff browsers the same too.

The Herald says KS back on later

Because if straight men are claiming to be lesbians and other people are humouring them, then it is rather hard for lesbians to maintain their rights as lesbians.

I think it’s LH not MC

From TT

JR - relationship to SP
LH - line manager
JR - others
LH yes also
LC is line manager
JR - When Jan 2020
JR - aware of GC views
LH - no
JR - ok if you don't know No ??
JR - aware of incident ?
LH - no
JR - see SP later? Demeanour?
LH - saw her, nothing different

Fifer : aye she's got a work ethic and a pair o stoot ladybaws. Am a alood tae say that? Naw? Fuck, sorry min. Ah mean a stoot disposition. Aye.

JR - turn to 722

I think what they meant about typing it was that they were typing “re:” as you might on the top of a letter to designate the subject matter, say:

”re: subject of Peggie Tribunal”

at the top of a letter.

Unless you have a side hustle in scriptwriting or stand up, you have missed your vocation. Lost count of how many times I’ve laughed out loud. And I also now have Chewing the Fat’s Taysiders in Space on a loop in my head😂

Ooh, The Email at p1253..

Yes, this is how I write (actual) letters.

Write the subject of the letter in bold Re: XYZ, then underneath the body of the letter

Oh, they think that they woman much better than we do.

I think I'm in that crossover group where both make sense to me. My initial thought was that I wouldn't use 're' manually but then realise I prob have done.

Or even: 'In re ...'

KS and her use of RE:

https://x.com/tribunaltweets/status/1947661821596364814

This is like a portal into a different world. “Parsnip Stout” is not something I have ever heard of. Obviously lots of sugar as they caramelise wonderfully when roasted. Maybe it doesn’t matter much what the source of the alcohol is when it is at drinking point.

The oat pancakes sound great. I’m going to try them.

I get the colours for the OP and my own posts in the browser. I don't have the app.

From TT

JR - email from KS on 30 dec to you, catch up, describes incident DU/SP. recognise?
LH - yes
JR - involvement in catch up?

Fifer : "catch up" is whit we're cryin the first investigation aye? Queer wey tae spell "stitch up" must be Edinburry chat, ken?

LH - don't think i was involved.
JR - describe whether you had discussion with SP about DU use of F CR
LH - at this time?
JR - december
LH - no
JR - aware of any tensions?
LH - no
JR - aware of tensions with other staff over DU use of F CR?
LH - no
JR - another doc, 1253 email from MC to you and others, 3rd para SP also referred to NMC Know anything that?
LH - no
JR - another doc 259, GM sent to LC and you and ED and KT, OfS

Me too

Think I switched to Ref. at some point to distinguish because of the email thing!

Isn't it Latin for 'With regard to...'? Or something like that.

It doesn't mean 'Replying to'

Thank you

You know you're In Deep when 'the email at p123' elicits an Ooh!😄