NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #38

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37

Yes, I posted a link to a NHS tribunal covering events from 2004 where the NHS lost and similar collusion was exposed.

Enough time has passed since then, for us to see how those people ended up. Spoiler - they stayed with the NHS.

Why is JR calling this witness - she seems to know nothing🤔

Petulant now, because I don’t get colour for the OP. ‘Snot fair!

From TT

JR - another doc 259, GM sent to LC and you and ED and KT, OfS - policy being made, need to keep confidential information such. Why did she send?
LH - asked to speak to sandie needed confidentialtity for herself.
JR - why needed
LH - ??? still IX ongoing
JR - LC and you , who had the conv?
LH - me
JR - when
LH - at shift change
JR - where?
LH - the office i use, training room
JR - anyone else present?
LH - no
JR - point in SP shift?
LH - beginning
JR - what did you say?
LH - safety brief at start, after asked for conv. went to office. said been sent an email, aksed to pass on message

Probably! I assumed it meant 'referencing', poss 'regarding'

@Cailleach1 The stout is great. This is batch #99 for me! As you say, they have a high sugar content (more than carrots).

I guess that’s the point? Given she’s SP line manager

Its immediately clear that JR is trying to dilute any claim of detriment by demonstrating that because she didn’t show any upset, a nurse of 30 years experience in the middle of a night shift on A&E, that she wasn’t upset so no detriment. It’s a brave line to take given the wider scale of institutional bias.

According to Google AI

In email, "re:" typically means "regarding" or "reply," indicating that the email is a response to a previous message. It can also be a prefix meaning "again" or "back," as in "rebuild" or "retrace".

In email:
"re:" in the subject line: signals that the email is a reply to a previous email.

It's a common abbreviation used to organize email threads and indicate that the email is part of an ongoing conversation.

While it can also mean "regarding" or "in reference to," its primary use in modern email is to denote a reply.

I think it’s significant given how upset DU was.

LH - scotland workforce policy to not discuss with anyone but representative to protect her confidentiality

and how did that go?😏

KS is still an A&E consultant and it is normal to work around clinicians shifts, I guess.

No explanation given. Same deathly quiet over court. JR speaking in soft slow voice like a counsellor. Witness sounds unwell or terrified,with voice breaking. but sound from witness mic also quite bad

Exactly. Emails aren’t letters, so people feeling the need to add it themselves suggests low digital competency.

LH - I asked her about her wellbeing,

at last somebody did!

According to my Mac's dictionary, re is a proposition, meaning 'in the matter of' or about/concerning, origin being Latin, ablative of res 'thing'.

My laptop shows what I presume is HMCTS's logo, which is a crown. It sits very neatly atop Jane Russell's head, until JR moves about a bit. Jane has a look of a youngish Queen Victoria when she's sporting her crown.

Just thought you'd like to know.

“Protected characteristic incident” is the infamous “foot in mouth” smoking gun email.

The doctors and DU were discussing it though in their cosy email chain. Fatwa against SP discussing however…

NC has asked a q - is she timesharing with JR with this witness??

”Re” is the ablative singular of the Latin noun “res”, meaning a thing, a matter. Hence “of or about the thing” or “of or about the matter”.

Coincidentally it would make more sense to use “re” rather than “c” - for “circa” as an abbreviation for “about”.

We'r on to cross examination, I think.

Some people being stoic and professional doesn't mean they feel things less or suffer less detrimental treatment than those who react hysterically.

Its well known in criminal trials that victims don't all react the same or how one might expect. Juries on rape trials have to be explicitly educated that just because a victim isn't a sobbing mess, doesn't mean they weren't assaulted or have suffered hugely.

The oat pancakes sound great. I’m going to try them.

Look up Staffordshire oatcakes.

Apols for culinary digression.

It's Latin for in the matter of
res means thing or matter in Latin
res judicata is a nice example.

He wasn't upset, he was outraged.