NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #38

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37

There is definitely a lot of classism on display at the tribunal - doctors perceiving themselves as much higher status than the nurses - remember DU's outrage and complaint at being asked to a "nurses" job by SP who was triaging the A&E that night - DU made it clear that it was beneath him.

There is also a sense of the educated middle class, privately educated closing ranks to push SP out. Interestingly IIRC JR is one of them having attended private school in Edinburgh.

It reminds me of the episode in Ab Fab where what's her name pesters her very straight daughter 'Are you sure you're not a lesbian dahling? not even a tiny bit?'

Edina 😀 I'm a huge AbFab fan

Does this mean that the Fifer’s on the ale (heavy?) already?

also, is the Fifer mates with Pete the Plumber?

Their command of the material is something to behold (even if getting it second hand). I thought that the thing about menopause was that in most species it is linked to life expectancy- you can't reproduce you die. But not in humans and orcas, I recall it was linked to benefits of grandmother effect. Passing on skills and knowledge beyond direct offspring. Not sure if studies done for great apes.

@NebulousSupportPostcard Yes a few years ago the Crown Prosecution Service got tras lobbyists to help them write a 'schools' guidance policy which stated any girl who objected to a male in her toilets/ changing rooms was guilty of a hate crime. It even had a photo of an adult man in make up as the illustration!
It was removed after public outcry as it was an illegal policy...

Which is pretty terrifying when you consider the power the CPS has...

I also understand they had excessive contributions to the dire guidance for C of E schools. I know one version was so appalling it was promptly withdrawn but don’t know whether safeguarding, the law and Cass ever got a look in with any new guidance?

@TheFifersSupportWren Exactly. Sandie has been portrayed as a terrible homophobic racist bigot - but a consultant who had been there 9 years and claims later to have spoken to another doctor about an alleged slight has never heard of it.

Basically you are right I think.

"What you have just said is not what you have just said. You deliberately said something that innocent people might think harmless, but which I - a clever person who uses the word nebulous - know for a fact is code for all of the truly evil things you believe whilst claiming to simply support women's sex based rights"

Yes. That is very common. (I have a friend who gave up medicine many years ago because she was single, with no family and in the days before mobile phones there was nobody to answer the phone if she was already out on a call. She would have been a lovely GP, but she couldn't physically be in two places at once. The male GPs had wives working unpaid on phone duty).
No personal life allowed.

I think DU intended ‘nebulous dog whistle’ as phrase to mean “it [sex] is essentially meaningless and unimportant (nebulous) but to those [wrong] people who think it is important it’s a signal that they should join up and conspire [against trans people] with their bigoted opinions”

I recommend Nigella’s courgette cake recipe from Domestic Goddess, apologies for third party link: www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/lifestyle/countrylife/15530745.nigellas-courgette-cake-simply-irresistible/

I only realised recently that the daughter's name is a play on 'Sapphic'

Thanks Bez!

All emails will be stored on the email server (that's the big computer in the computer room, it will be fully backed up, too) So there will be a complete record. But, as others have said, this isn't a criminal investigation...

Exactly. = You don't care about children being groomed/transed etc. it's just an excuse to be racist/transphobic

He did what??

“There’s no agreed definition of biological sex” is akin to weaponizing the passive voice. It means the same thing as “I disagree with you what biological sex means” but makes you sound more important and less of a pillock.

Only the second day of being able to follow along. Getting so annoyed at this never starting on time! Have experience of other types of tribunal and have never known any to start late (unless judge/panel ill)Albeit few barristers and people generally representing themselves/low-level advocates......

I too have had friends refused leave for their own weddings. Not just women. In one case he had to be in India so we just covered the rota between the rest of us while he was away.

Pete is ready to go

Still no start to proceedings. I hope it's because the judge said
'Listen lads, it's nearly noon, why don't we get a few sammiches down and a cuppa tay down us now and then go out and have a fair go at it?'
or similar in his own voice😄

Right, off to get a cuppa. That'll do it

I'm going to have to post this again aren't I?

Just back from the shop and now ten pages behind.

@PlasticAcrobat When I posted about Moss I wasn't thinking about "m'love" but I am now! Thanks for the reminder 😂😂😂

Eleven pages behind after writing that...

I'm floundering here with all the threads and posts but if what you say is true, it is utterly appalling.

Is there any likelihood or truth that within the chain of missing emails, it will contain proof that DU was included within the chain at some point and he was able to change/amend/inflate his statement as a result?! That up to 20 individuals, on that email chain, were colluding? That those 20 individuals were all 'upstanding individuals' such as consultants and doctors?!

I can barely contain myself, I'm so fucking angry that this is a possibility. Why, just WHY do these women want to bend over backwards to help this fucking monstrosity of a man?! WHY?!?!!?

Sorry about all the !! and ?? but I'm beside myself here.😡