NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #38

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37

It is a vague statement that is based on a bigoted view held by bigots where the statment is coy about the bigoted view but when bigots share the vague statement, they all are aware they're sharing their bigotry.

An example: transwomen are not women is supposed to mean that trans people shouldn't exist.

I know but NC asked KS about it yesterday and no one seemed to know.,

when all of this is done and dusted, and Sandie hopefullly wins, it'll be really interesting to hear more from Naomi about behind the scenes / her thoughts on what was said and done throughout.

Yes it's the secrecy that says, we know this is wrong, but we're doing it anyway.

I find that kinda disgusting it goes against everything they should believe in and they know it!

A reminder of the Nitter link
Tribunal Tweets (@tribunaltweets) | nitter.poast.org

Some religious schools of thought don't accept it as it suggests God made a mistake, but some see it as triumph of spirit and soul over the body and some find it preferable to being gay.

His dad holds a senior position as Director of Library and University Collections at the University of Edinburgh

@CinnamonCinnabar You are probably right. I thought he was still in his first 2 years but actually provisional registration was 19 Jul 2021. We know he had a clinical fellow post in psychiatry at the time of the February tribunal, dont know if he is still employed now as not every post is for a year.

It is how Upton described sex.

You won’t hear about it from NC. It would be misconduct.

Its the stepdad that is high up in the church, I believe.

It's saying "there's not really any such thing as biological sex, or at least it's very nebulous, so claiming there is is just another way of being transphobic".

And you do get the virtue signalling aspect, even more conspicuous in the case of the religious caste! A case of making a virtue of necessity.

I think your mistake is expecting it to mean something. That is akin to expecting Upton's arguments to be logical.

It can also be sung as in What's sex got to do with it, what's sex but a nebulous dog whistle.
Earworms'r'us😁

@ThatCyanCat @Jitrenka Church of England trans guidance was written by 3 male clergy who say they are women, (who if I recall rightly includes one senior churchman -an archdeacon- who
also uses female spaces) with total contempt for the rights/ privacy of women/girls . So misogyny baked in to existing CofE anti safeguarding problems!.

I am guessing that NC and Charlotte (or perhaps it would be the solicitors) must have had a massive wall of post-its (or the IT equivalent) to try to figure out who said what and when and to whom.

Presumably I can do another hour of work without fearing I am missing the start.

BTW I thought it was just humans and a few species of whales that went through menopause?

It can also be used to imply that people are racist.

For example, when Kellie.Jay Keen has spoken about grooming gangs, people have said it's a 'dog whistle' for racist/ right wing views. Talking about grooming gangs is just an excuse etc

A dog whistle is only something other dogs can hear = certain phrases/talking points actually mean something else that only certain people holding the same views will recognise

Think I've got that right 😀

That must be how he knows which of his parents is his father. His dad's the one with this job.

I am probably repeating somebody else, but how does KS not knowing any of SP’s views in 9 years of working together work with JR’s argument that SP is a hateful racist far-right bigot?!

well thats just great.. God is a misogynist according to the church 🤦‍♀️

BU said "But there is no agreed definition of biological sex. It's a nebulous dog whistle."

Dog whistle explanation as per pp. Nebulous = not well defined

I thought he said it to dismiss the concept of describing a trans woman as a 'biological male' that NC had just introduced, and that reddit TRAs, amongst others, have been getting particularly annoyed about lately. Because the silly GCs just don't understand biology.

I imagine that if he had been allowed to 'help develop policy'. it would have included any reference to biology as a transphobic hate crime when used in discussion with trans people, or in any other context with anyone else in the world. With a reminder that you don't have to understand why, you just have to #BeKind to the most vulnerable group in society who are just trying to live their lives.

My theory is that many successful
women are ND - and EVERY trans teen is ND.

@prh47bridge yes definitely have to stop myself there. Engineers gonna engineer, it do be like that!

I'm standing by for TT.

Fifer : heid's burst aff that Auld Jock, takin it easy the day. Deuchars IPA (3.8 as opposed tae 6.7)