NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #38

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37

Indeed. And it makes me wonder if that email chain had been fully disclosed earlier, whether the participants in that chat might have been named as respondents.

Yes but Upton was an adult married man at the time of his decision, so either he has some sort of emotional development delay and/or he has always been their Golden Boy.

I mean I can sort of understand supporting your adult child through thick and thin, but this is odd.

Maybe they didn't separate the email out, and that's why they've got an expert in.

I'm sure NC will have considered that option, if she doesn't know 100% it's been separated.

but it's a testament to exactly how bloody untrustworthy she thinks they all are, that she would even consider it possible

It seems at least possible that the kind of people who would collude and withold evidence from a tribunal, may also have taken a sneak peek at what has gone on in the tribunal before they give evidence.

If that is true (though prob not because doctors are trustworthy!) then I hope the possibility of being exposed has kept them up every night since February.

Looks sadly at watch.

Looks sadly at lunch but will resist.

I read somewhere, years ago, that statistically, successful women are over represented as mothers of trans children.

The theory being that as their own status wanes they find fresh kudos through a transitioning child.

Yep, I think she's doubting everything until cross-checked at this point.

KS : "you can't prove that"

NC : "watch me and cope"

It's pretty sinister that the "forgotten/lost" e-mail chain included witnesses and those supposed to be investigating the incident and they were openly discussing the case surreptitiously.

But worse IMHO that they copied in DU into these discussions and he was also asking for comments during this period of formulating and editing his own statement. Especially given Fife's extreme measures to isolate and muzzle SP

It'll be because he's a Junior Clinical Fellow which is a very junior service provision post not a training post. There will be a plan of what specialities the person is in for the job description (and to say which dept pays for them) and they need to make the job reasonably attractive to get someone. ED is anaesthetics is a logical combo, durations in each dept will be on service need & financial grounds.
Why Dr U is still employed when a Clinical Fellow post would usually be a fixed term contract is a mystery to me.
Google the job title for examples. There's a haematology one out in Fife just now! On NHS Scotland Jobs website

Recommended courgette cake recipe for @TheFifersSupportWrenhttps://smittenkitchen.com/2019/08/ultimate-zucchini-bread/
This is super nice…..

This is what was said about KS knowledge of Sandie - source TT

"JR - describe relationship with SP
KS - I'm a consultant in dept,
KS - large ept have know since started
JR - id you know of her GC views?
KS - no
JR - do you knoww hat it means?
KS - yes I think so
JR - aware of any of SP's views?
KS - no"

So in 9 years Searle's never bothered with any chit chat?

Agonising wait. Can we hold Judge in contempt of remote court for keeping us in suspense too long?! I might have to start sobbing and having panic attacks at the local A&E dept if this agony goes on too long.

Is everyone WFTCHTJ?

I took it as meaning that SP was professional and did not discuss things like that in the workplace -i.e. did not 'bring her whole self to work', just the efficient and professional parts of her self

Or "engagement" as it's apparently known.

I’m sure there was recent chat of Mum doing a PhD and Dad as curator/ librarian. Not sure it’s accurate or relevant - needless to say well resourced middle class family.

Or you could see it as Sandie isn't particularly GC doesn't mind the 6ft oaff staotin about in his skirt.

But what she does care about is her own dignity and safety in a tiny changing room.

Various churches are among the most gung-ho supporters of genderism, the CoE being particularly enthusiastic, I believe. (I know it’s not the CoE in this case).

I asked this yesterday, a million posts ago 😂, what does a “Nebulous Dog Whistle” actually mean. Is it short hand for transphobic?

I’ve got straight in. I can see names in the side bar but a black screen

Nipping on to say I am here for an hour then must away to other duties so as always, grateful for analysis and discourse from you amazing wims.

Big ups to Nauti for the threads.

No. In the room but with crackly sound and black screen. We've had the sidebar warning so presumably the clerks are ready for kick off.

My personal opinion is they should all be done for it.. they discussed an ongoing investigation cane to conclusions in favour of Dr U and then proceeded to hide these emails from the court.. there must be one or two things there they can be got on.. but they will no doubt get away with it and be offered a pay rise.. usually the way these things work..

DrU used it in previous trib, he said something like 'sex is just a nebulous...'

Indeed. SSDs are somewhat different. When you overwrite the data on an SSD, you aren't actually overwriting it at all because of the clever ways SSDs and similar work to hide the limitations of the hardware. However, getting well off topic here!