NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #29

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25
Thread 26: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5335861-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-26
Thread 27: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5372582-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-27
Thread 28: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5374630-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-28

Sorry but the changing room isn't big enough to accommodate their combined sense of male entitlement

Bumba and Pips Bunce. For 7 consecutive days to see if her brain melts.

Edited as autocorrect called her bumbag.

Katie Dawalski(sp) all 6'4 of him or maybe Tiffany scott, if he was still alive. Although a zombie Tiffany Scott could really hammer the point home😁

I'm afraid I think Bumbrain and Bunce would instantly bond. She's just too far gone.

Perhaps Pips could do a sort of time share arrangement with Eddie/Suzy. Just to make it more interesting.

Right, off to bed now before I give myself nightmares.

Yep, no one needs dreams haunted by those two.

This whole ‘not sure what sex I am’ bollocks, mirroring Upton’s claims about sex being nebulous is hopefully registering with the panel as being disingenuous bullshit or even as outright lies. The fact that both Upton’s and Bumba have made these claims will hopefully show to the panel that there is nothing Sandie could have done other that 100% compliance.

I know no one is actually being serious, and as much as I think everyone on the NHS Fife end needs to be held accountable, I wouldn't wish any of the swivel eyed loons and/or violent TRAs on any of the women involved. Yes it might peak them, but they also deserve the privacy, dignity and safety of sss away from men.

I see what you're saying, but the fact that Bumba hadn't even visited the room to see the situation Sandie had been put in, and due to her career path is never going to experience herself, I tend to think it would be a good thing for her to realise what she's been partly responsible for putting women through.

Who was possibly also using the same changing room and equally uncomfortable

DrU basically said that in his cross examination didn't he? No matter how Sandie Peggie had approached the issue he would have seen it as a hate crime.

Exactly. She couldn't ask him to leave with impunity and when she wouldn't go in, she was demonised for that too.

Yes I agree it would be nice to give her a wake up call, I just think actually doing it would be a punishment too far, it's just exposing them to the dangers we've been talking about for years and IMO no women should have to ever deal with that, even if I personally think their conduct has been utterly deplorable or cowardly.

Not that I think for 1 second anyone actually would do this, I do know it's just a joke!

Although... sticking her in with Nicola Sturgeon as a PP suggested, with NS wanging on for a few days would be fine with me, IB'd be climbing the walls by the end 😂

@NebulousDogWhistleIsReality yes I think he did. But now with Bumba apparently also being so unsure about sex I think it’s the start of a pattern to show the panel the corporate view of NHSFife. If other witnesses are just as unsure about what sex is I think it’s the start also points to some coaching or else there are some serious failings in biology knowledge in NHS staff at that particular hospital.

Tbh I'd rather change, albeit it in the most discreet manner possible and never looking at him, even if I had to contort myself like a member of cirque de soleil, in front of Upton than spend a week trapped with Sturgeon.

I am not a legal person, but I wonder if you could posit gender ideology as a protected belief and therefore you could be an adult with a degree in immunology and still not KNOW what your sex is.

My understanding is that not yet. Gender critical has been stated in law as a protected belief, and it might follow that the opposite would be too but it hasn't been tested. I could be wrong.

I’m struggling to keep up (again).

It’s probably already been covered but I found it ‘interesting’ that IB claims to have had no input into the pleased aims in response to SP’s case.

https://x.com/tribunaltweets/status/1945480163019383108?s=46

“NC What specific rights under HR act does the first of those pleaded aims refer to.
IB I didn't contribute to this response. Logic here isn't necessarily the logic I used when giving advice…”

I’d love to know who did pull together the ‘pleased aims’ based on IB’s advice, when she appears to have no clue about the relevant legislation that should inform her advice when it’s been asked for.

This comment seems relevant:

https://x.com/lucyhunterb/status/1945527363095196035?s=46

“There must be a person or group of people at NHS Fife who are fulfilling the client role in this case, instructing the NHS central solicitors as needed on behalf of the board. Very weirdly, as far as I can see, after all these months no one seems to know who they are.”

IB being asked about this by NC, JR objecting as IB isn’t a solicitor & the judge allowing the Q as no one with the relevant involvement was going to put themselves forward to explain the pleaded aims - it’s an ‘interesting’ strategy. 🤨

There is definitely an issue with people at the top being very happy to give other women's (and girls) rights away.

They aren't likely to find themselves sharing a space with the Isla's Brysons, the Beth's Uptons or losing competitions to the Rachel McKinnons (i thought i was peeked by him)

😂
Both options are dire but I'd go with NS any day! My ears might bleed, I might have ground my teeth to stumps, torn my hair out and be gibbering by the end of my sentence but at least I could be sure she is in fact female!

I have to go to my bed before I fall over 😂Night all!

Interesting. It would make sense that if "sex being immutable and unchangeable" is considered a protected belief, than the opposite could also be considered protected belief.

I wonder if that will lead to legislation which separates sex and gender i.e. sex can't change, but gender can?

I think it comes down to the fact that people have been sacked, marginalised etc for gc views and therefore have gone to tribunals and eventually there is a result saying that gc views are a protected belief, but no one is doing this to the gender woo people so there's never been a case to examine it.

That involves defining what Gender actually is.
As NC got in very early on, whats the difference between a transwoman with long hair and a man with a ponytail ? 🤔

Sorry if ive got it slightly wrong but their was some comments like that

Agree. As I mentioned before, many of them exude creepy, dead behind the eyes weirdo vibes in just general spaces, let alone in a sss, where women are vulnerable. Wouldn't wish that on a 'signed a blood oath of revenge' mortal enemy.