NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #28

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25
Thread 26: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5335861-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-26
Thread 27: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5372582-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-27

I'm currently writing something and thinking how would this read back in a court room

I keep having to strip out the sarcasm!

This is painful this afternoon

The Rebekah Brooks defence.

I'm sure this has been said a million times before but particularly given the subject in hand, I think she (Isla Bumba) has such an unfortunate name.

Every time I see it, I can't help think of the other Isla B

From TT

NC Important advice you were giving. Wouldn't you normally take notes/email follow up
NC Are you sure you gave that advice or is it advice you wish you had.
IB Hundred percent I gave that advice.
NC ED contacted you in Aug 24
IB 2023
NC you weren't aware of ids of nurse and dr
IB No not until I was involved in tribunal side of things.
NC You are quite sure you didn't have that info from Kate Searle
IB Sure
NC You are HR rights lead. Obviously not a lawyer but should have reasonable grasp of subject.
IB Yes

I am reminded of at least one of the "Dear sweet summer childs" from ERCC tribunal. 20 something, no clue, trustees of a significantly funded charity. sitting there saying they had no idea what was going on, in an area that they had responsibility as trustees to oversee. Letting a man with trans identity call the shots and disregard the law, then sitting there getting grilled up the wazoo by NC about how they let that happen.

It's like a flashback of deja vu that I've seen before!

This is going to be a bloodbath :)

oooh she's being asked about her alleged reminder about GC beliefs... but apparently no notes/minutes taken.

from TT

Hundred per cent i gave that advice.

What a Love Island response.

Madonna's Isla Bonita, for me. It's quite the ear worm. Then I segue into Lucky Star. I have no idea why.

How old is IB?

So these recollections are even devoid of contemporaneous notes

Time for a Dirty Harry quote

"Personnel? That's for assholes"

(apologies to anyone on here who works in personnel, obviously I don't mean you)

Are we going to get to burly Steve?

old enough to know better

From TT

NC Important advice you were giving. Wouldn't you normally take notes/email follow up
NC Are you sure you gave that advice or is it advice you wish you had.
IB Hundred percent I gave that advice.

Body language was interesting here, scratching head and looking at watch/wrist. 🤔🤔

(was he Steve?)

From TT

NC [to bundle ] i/x notes of ED from mtg. ED interview with Angela Glancy. You will see your name - I phoned IB and asked what the trust position would be and IB said if Beth ids as f she is entitled to change in f cr.
IB I would have supplied generic advice. ED would have applied it to the specific situation.
NC You didn't know anything about the person - whether f or m or any surgery etc
[Ib yes to all]
IB EHRC - entitled to use facilities that go with their lived gender
NC if he said he was a woman?
IB I based advice on statutory code of

She's the EDI person right? So the EDI person didn't know about Stonewall?

Please tell me I'm wrong.

Cos if she's the diversity person and she didn't know about Stonewall, what was she actually getting paid to do cos it wasn't to write policies and it wasn't to understand diversity issue.

27, I think

Hundred per cent i gave that advice.

A contrast to the earlier, I don't recall's. Classic Post Office Management response there.

I thought Traitors, but I don't watch Love Island.

Another unfortunate name echo: Jess La Bombalera

Is it just me or are minutes normally taken at your workplace meetings? We take minutes for everything so I'm always surprised at these ET's when no-one present seems to have thought it advisable to even write a short note of what was discussed, when it's entirely likely to be contentious.

Naomi getting into her rhythm now

@RedToothBrush Specifically the Diversity champ scheme