NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #28

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25
Thread 26: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5335861-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-26
Thread 27: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5372582-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-27

Well in a way this is a good thing as the “not quite insurance scheme” will presumably now be laying down the (SC informed, actual) law to these hospitals and their EDI twits.

My july convo with ED was unspecific and informal

I can clearly remember that is was a pointless conversation

I need demand the lol emoji back...

The court declined to make an order because Upton had already agreed to provide it for forensic examination, so no order was required.

Isn't using "at the time" all the time tacit acknowledgment that what was done at the time would be done differently now, so was wrong?

Well, surprise surprise, the EDI manager seems to be a bullshit artist. Who would've predicted that?!

@FingleGlen Me too, it was my favourite. 😞

NC Are you aware NHS Fife has been a Stonewall diversity champion
IB They are not now.
NC Are you aware of that.
IB Not the details.
NC What do you know c the Stonewall div champion scheme/
IB Don't know anything about the scheme in detail. Presumably its a kind of

Stone what? Oh Stonewall, I am vaguely aware of their existance

And also he had only begun to transition in 2022 and would have needed at least 2 years before he could qualify for a GRC. Since this case concerns events in 2023. NHS Fife must have known he couldn't have one.

How many Isla Bumba’s are there? How many earn out of kilter salaries for doing vibes based jobs that are this powerful? And assuming there are lots of them, how on earth do you get rid of these roles - and at least downgrade their salaries? It seems the whole HR/Diversity profession has created their own market and salary scales that are completely barking…

IB Don't know anything about the scheme in detail. Presumably its a kind ofpartnership?
NC You are not aware how many NHS trusts are part of it.
IB No.
[bundle discussion, including re supplementary bundle/s]
[Judge and panel have left the room]

IB Don't know anything about the scheme in detail. Presumably its a kind of

Have never submitted incorrect payroll information to HMRC, so can't claim any knowledge of what would happen if you did, but HMRC do change the sex marker in their records when somebody is granted a GRC.

I think that with increased ability to check data, it's more likely that this kind of discrepancy would be thrown up as 'computer says no', but I don't intend to test them.

Fife’s EDI lead doesn’t know about the Stonewall Champions scheme. I find that hard to believe.

I appreciate NC's subtle reference to thought crimes... I hope she refers to that again later :)

Never mentioned at any of the diversity network meetings I attended.

How an EDI lead doesn't know about Stonewall is baffling to me.

I very much doubt that as even after the sc judgement and a separate judgement against a school that single sex facilities must be provided for children the Scottish education secretary told schools not to provide single sex facilities yet

If there's IB emails about the Stonewall Champions scheme from discovery she could be in rather hot water now "at the time".

I swear, whenever I write a work email from now on, I'll be thinking 'what if I have this read back to me in court by NC'!

They only need 1 person in each region as all the polices should be exactly the same.

Total and utter waste of Taxpayer money.

From TT

[Judge and panel have returned]
NC That delay gives me a chance to slot qs in.
NC You were asked in chief c mtg in July, not sure exactly who was there - Belinda Morgan, a few others. Two meetings, the same ppl invited to both. At second mtg you say reminded that nurse

I'd crack under the pressure

What did you have for your tea?

Salad

Are you sure??
...
....
....
Hard stare

Aghhhhhhhh no it was chicken nuggets!

My thoughts exactly. How can she not know?? Particularly given her involvement in such a high profile case involving a trans person.
I smell massive piles of steaming horseshit.

She's either lying or has outed herself as being completely ignorant. I'm not sure which is worse

From TT

[Judge and panel have returned]
NC That delay gives me a chance to slot qs in.
NC You were asked in chief c mtg in July, not sure exactly who was there - Belinda Morgan, a few others. Two meetings, the same ppl invited to both. At second mtg you say reminded that nurse allowed her GC beliefs. An important point. Claimant's claim had already gone in, storm blowing up c how SP been treated.
IB That would be a way to describe it.
NB no one took notes at mtg
IB Teams mtg. Didn't take notes myself, don't know if individuals took notes.