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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #28

1000 replies

nauticant · 16/07/2025 12:09

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25
Thread 26: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5335861-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-26
Thread 27: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5372582-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-27

OP posts:
Thread gallery
27
PutThe · 16/07/2025 18:39

rebmacesrevda · 16/07/2025 18:19

I'd prefer it if he existed more quietly.

I don't even mind him existing noisily. In the gents.

RoseRedorDead · 16/07/2025 18:40

Just delurking to say I'm not a crusty voyeuristic mysoginist squatting on this thread. Love you wonderful women but I'm too ill to.comment and be active just now.

I'm so grateful to all of you doing the hard ground work and reposting tribunal tweets etc !!!

rebmacesrevda · 16/07/2025 18:42

PutThe · 16/07/2025 18:39

I don't even mind him existing noisily. In the gents.

The gents? Oh, but he will cease to exist in there! For a TW can only exist when affirmed by compliant women.

DrSpartacularsMagnificentOctopus · 16/07/2025 18:42

Oh dear, a mantrumming plopper come to chide us.

He needs to stop getting all his news from Reddit.

PutThe · 16/07/2025 18:44

rebmacesrevda · 16/07/2025 18:42

The gents? Oh, but he will cease to exist in there! For a TW can only exist when affirmed by compliant women.

A risk I'm prepared to take!

RedToothBrush · 16/07/2025 18:44

dynamiccactus · 16/07/2025 18:26

That doctor then whined because the nurse waited outside until the doctor had finished before going in to use the changing room herself.

I also wonder if the Trust would have reacted in the same way if the trans person had been a nurse...

Darlington - it's not a doctor at Darlington is it?

ChimpanzeeThatMonkeyNews · 16/07/2025 18:46

CriticalCondition · 16/07/2025 17:08

This is where I'd like a 'fingers crossed' emoji. Transcripts are hugely expensive. Let's hope someone waves a magic wand.

🤞🏻

Boiledbeetle · 16/07/2025 18:47

nauticant · 16/07/2025 17:41

<Looks sadly at the thread reaching page 30>

Bet it seemed like a really good idea to start thread 1 didn't it nauticant?

If you'd known then what you know now!!

nauticant · 16/07/2025 18:50

What makes it all the more tragic is that I didn't start thread #1. I jumped in after that!

OP posts:
nauticant · 16/07/2025 18:53

Basically @Hoardasurassstarted thread #1, saw what was coming, said "sure you can take over" to me, and I've been stuck here ever since.

OP posts:
murasaki · 16/07/2025 18:54

nauticant · 16/07/2025 18:50

What makes it all the more tragic is that I didn't start thread #1. I jumped in after that!

The road to hell is paved with good intentions 🤣

Seriously though, many thanks for keeping it all on track. The initial posts with cast members are invaluable after a break.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 16/07/2025 18:54
Season 2 Finale GIF by Sony Pictures Television

@Tangfastic71 are you ok hun?

ExitPursuedByABare · 16/07/2025 18:54

Yes thanks @nauticant

Boiledbeetle · 16/07/2025 18:55

Oooh! I'm on catch up and have just reached the

Whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinge

Post

NebulousSupportPostcard · 16/07/2025 18:55

LarkLaneAgain · 16/07/2025 17:18

Submissions perhaps at the end?
To address all the claims of no one else complained.
As in, of course they didn't, look at what happened to the nurse who did.

Punishments, fabrications and even when cleared under the disciplinary process, which took 18 months, they suggested a facilitated reflective practice discussion.

I really hope Sandie invites someone from Netflix to facilitate the reflective practice discussion.

Boiledbeetle · 16/07/2025 18:56

And just in time as it's gone now

ifIwerenotanandroid · 16/07/2025 18:56

nauticant · 16/07/2025 18:50

What makes it all the more tragic is that I didn't start thread #1. I jumped in after that!

OMG, it could happen to anyone! ... treads VERY carefully...

MarieDeGournay · 16/07/2025 18:56

RoseRedorDead · 16/07/2025 18:40

Just delurking to say I'm not a crusty voyeuristic mysoginist squatting on this thread. Love you wonderful women but I'm too ill to.comment and be active just now.

I'm so grateful to all of you doing the hard ground work and reposting tribunal tweets etc !!!

Hello RoseRedorDead, I hope you're drawing sustenance from all the energy flowing here, and the positive vibes will help you feel stronger.
Take careSmile

KWaldron · 16/07/2025 18:56

CunningLinguist2 · 16/07/2025 15:18

Dr B Upton's name is Beth. If we're naming the other parties, let's also use her first name, please.

@CunningLinguist2

He calls himself "Beth".

rebmacesrevda · 16/07/2025 18:56

NebulousSupportPostcard · 16/07/2025 18:55

I really hope Sandie invites someone from Netflix to facilitate the reflective practice discussion.

Haha! I was hoping for a couple of Supreme Court judges.

RedToothBrush · 16/07/2025 18:57

ifIwerenotanandroid · 16/07/2025 18:56

OMG, it could happen to anyone! ... treads VERY carefully...

Been there. Done that. Got the t-shirts.

SternJoyousBee · 16/07/2025 18:57

Greyskybluesky · 16/07/2025 18:06

"A highly qualified doctor - who happens to be trans - uses the NHS approved women’s changing room, in line with policy and the law..."

Yeah, I'm going to have to stop you there!

Sorry I have to repost this classic again. I think this may be the best post of the day and there have been some fabulously witty comments today but this is still making me laugh

Madcatdudette · 16/07/2025 18:58

It really boils my piss when men assume they are entitled to whatever they desire.
Dude might dress like a lady but he ain’t one.
Don’t care about his qualifications. Doesn’t make him any better than an uneducated trans person.
Whilst I appreciate he may not want to occupy a men’s changing room it doesn’t mean he can fuck off to a women’s space.
Use the bogs to change or how about you use a space that isn’t allocated to women.
Knob head.

NebulousDogWhistleIsReality · 16/07/2025 18:59

nauticant · 16/07/2025 18:53

Basically @Hoardasurassstarted thread #1, saw what was coming, said "sure you can take over" to me, and I've been stuck here ever since.

😂

Seriously though you deserve a wee medal or something! This has been a marathon, thank you for all the effort you've put in!

And a special thank you to @Justabaker and the TT team for their amazing work!

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