NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #28

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25
Thread 26: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5335861-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-26
Thread 27: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5372582-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-27

"A highly qualified doctor - who happens to be trans - uses the NHS approved women’s changing room, in line with policy and the law..."

Yeah, I'm going to have to stop you there!

Some people really let their hormones get the better of them.

I’m extremely concerned that this hits how around DEI is grist to the mill of Reform/Trump et all. I mean, let’s face it, in its current form DEI is a colossal waste of money. Scandalously so.

How do we keep protections for the marginalised while losing the total ponzi scam of DEI?

The one thing IB managed to do was make it very hard for Fife to use her as a scapegoat.

Also please remember that in UK law there is this principle baked in about the reasonable understanding by an average person.

All these people going on about how the supreme court and biological sex, aren't applying this principle when they start bleating that biological sex is very very complicated and not binary and we don't all know what our sex is.

We do.

And we have a reasonable understanding of what our sex is as average people and the law works from this premise because otherwise the average person would be unfairly treated by the law in an unjust manner.

thank you for the share token.

"“While no formal sanctions have been imposed,” NHS Fife said in a statement, “the panel concluded that a facilitated reflective practice discussion would be appropriate.” It is not easy translating this guff into plain English but I think this means “We deeply regret your innocence but think you should think long and hard about the behaviour which caused us to persecute you”."

Ooh another drive by scolding! That's us telt!

Utter pish! 😂

Hi - I think the claimants have raised the money and are paying the stenographers. Certainly NC and MG are making sure that they are getting reasonable breaks and worrying about their working conditions.
The parties jointly paid for a transcript for Mermaids vs LGB Alliance. We in TT were relieved when comparing the transcript to our tweet threads - we did okay.

What really gets me is that she is paid £50k to do sfa and clinical staff who work their arses off get paid so much less. I want to know who she knew to get that job!

Im hiding the thread now

Of course you are, you ridiculous tantruming child.

As said before, you can no debate all you like but the debate has gone on and will go on without you and the whole world has seen today the despicable women hating world view of gender ideology in all it's nonsensical glory.

Despite you 'hiding the thread now', I'm fairly certain this post will be deleted as you'll be hovering over this thread like an angry, impotent toad.

The NHS spent £220K of public money defending itself from this absolute farce.
That pisses me off too, my taxes (higher than my colleagues in England with similar salaries) go into this shite and the salary of clueless Isla. I think where we differ is who is responsible for the farce.

no worries there will be another one (#29?) along in a minute.

This court case must have generated more specific threads than any other topic on MN

Yes. Yes, she did.

There were many jaw-dropping lines. Another one, and IB uttered these exact words forcefully and with complete conviction

'Women can rape men.'

NC had already exposed so many examples of IB's idiocy that she wisely left that one for later.

Thankyou to the scolder for my new username

Yep. Been conclusively proven today that that is a load of shite!

you are all exceedingly brilliant and we are thankful and very appreciative of all you are doing

Dr Upton was clear in his testimony that he considered himself a biological woman. The implication was that he would consider it acceptable treat a female patient who requested single sex care. To be very clear that would potentially be an assault - an actual crime.

So your heroic doctor seems to have a tenuous grasp of biology and an equally tenuous grasp of basic medical ethics and patient consent.

The NHS instituted an unlawful policy and you are criticising the woman who was harmed by this unlawfulness rather than the organisation who created it and the man who benefited.

You couldn’t find the right side of history with a SatNav.

😂😂😂

There there. there... I do hope you feel better now you've got that off your chest.

Most of your rant doesn't deserve a response, but I will just say that if anyone should have used a private space it was the male doctor, not the female nurse, who was where she should have been - in the FEMALE changing room. I cannot wait until the NHS has to comply with the SC judgment and ensure its staff have genuine single-sex facilities again.

I'm curious to know what her Masters' dissertation focussed on (and would love to read it), as to me it seems that her specialism (or dissertation?) is vaguely described as equalities - but no information given in terms of which aspect.

@Tangfastic71 the DEI lead has said under oath that NHS Fife didn't have a policy, the recent SC ruling clarified what the law has always been, and the law says that Dr Upton shouldn't have been in the female changing rooms. Dr Upton caused most of the drama, especially by adding in accusations towards Sandie Peggie of endangering patient safety, which investigations have proven to be untrue. So pretty much all your points are inaccurate.

Your facts are violence! I feel unsafe! Genocide!!!

This isn’t a brave stance. It’s a public meltdown because a trans woman didn’t apologise for existing.

If this poster actually means this then they perhaps haven't understood a single word of this case.

If they don't mean it then it's the usual dishonesty.

As someone who has 3 decades of experience eye-rolling at my more childish students’ choices of usernames, CunningLinguist is a very old one and was generally an indicator that the student in question was what is nowdays known as an incel.

Funnily enough, of the many, many instances of this username I have seen, not a single time to my knowledge was it ever used by a female student.

It’s just the usual hyperbole. It’s not him existing that anyone has a problem with. It’s him existing as in female single-sex spaces to the detriment of actual women that’s the problem.

Everyone knows he exists. Unfortunately.

I'd prefer it if he existed more quietly.