NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #28

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25
Thread 26: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5335861-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-26
Thread 27: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5372582-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-27

Women have a right to equal H&S protection at work under the Equality Act.

Just saying...

What's a TA? Couldn't see it on the abbreviations page, sorry.

trans ally?

It's not true that no one knows what their chromosomes are. I've had karotyping with my dh as part of fertility investigations. I think usual sex chromosomes would definitely be flagged up at this!

But, but.....T are the most vulnerable. That's the script that DEI all learn

Yes, T are the most marginalised and vulnerable population ON EARTH.

Makes you sick, all those privileged drug addicts and severely disabled people and ex-cons and illiterate people and children from chaotic backgrounds and what have you, going around flaunting their privilege over those poor middle-aged men who just want to watch their workmates strip.

I am sat here in a state of some disbelief.

How can it be that we have multiple well educated, trained, responsible professionals denying that women and girls require privacy and dignity when vulnerable and getting changed? That as there was an absence of complaints about a mixed sex approach to changing rooms and other spaces, that means absolutely everyone is on board and fine about being in those spaces with the opposite sex.

How little life experience do you need to have had to not know what feeling intruded upon, embarrassed, uncomfortable, vulnerable feels like when in a state of vulnerability or undress?

Why do they thing society has gone along split sex lines for so many things for so long?

Of course she knows what DU's chromosomes are. She's already 'admitted' that a TW is male bodied, and DU is a TW.....so DU must have XY chromosomes.

Next up: Gillian Malone, Head of Nursing who engineered the Stop-Start Investigation process

Tribunal Tweets

@tribunaltweets
·
Feb 13

JR - KS email to DU on 12 Jan, to DU, you were CC'd. Would you read that to yourself and what you make of that
ED - I was the designated lead for the IX and I wanted DU to put into writing what the complaint was
JR - who decided you were the lead
ED - Gillian Malone, that was

Tribunal Tweets

@tribunaltweets
·
Feb 13

later changed because clearly I was going to become part of the IX.
JR - why clearly part of the IX
ED - because SP had spoken with myself, I had taken advice about the CRs.
JR - when was that changed
ED - I think in February, probably near the end of Feb
JR - who was new lead

Tribunal Tweets

@tribunaltweets
·
Feb 13

ED - it was Angela Glancey
JR - who decided,
ED - HR and senior management, head of nursing, Gilian Malone (GM) ,
JR - who made you original IX lead
ED - GM, in that meeting in early Jan
JR - how were you told
ED - verbally by GM and Angie Hammond from HR.

BBC reporting on it at last.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1ljrnnppzqo

Apols, adding my Q again as it was lost in the fast flow (white water rapids) of the thread. I’m hoping some of you have a better memory than I do.
IB said that no one had come to her with a query about women who were uncomfortable with TIMs in the cr.
so who did SP’s line manager (ED?) go to with her query. I thought it had been made, and followed up, twice.

@FingleGlen
The complete disregard for safeguarding winds me up no end. They're supposed to protect patients and they can't even protect their own staff. I hope the clinicians are challenged on this point, because they all have a duty to safeguard, and lots of specific training on it. Failure to safeguard could cost a clinician their registration; they should be way more concerned about it than they have been.

Have I missed something? How does NHS Fife end up hiring an indoctrinated, very recent graduate to maybe not the most senior, but a highly responsible and influential role that requires understanding of equality laws, not Stonewall's fiction?

Does Scotland really not have any better candidates for the job than Isla Bumba? Considering how many formidable women we've seen recently (thank you, FWS), I am finding this somewhat hard to believe. Perhaps time to look at what dictates recruitment in many organisations whilst we're at it, too.

Institutional incompetence.

IBs evidence has reaffirmed my belief that DEI jobs in there current form in public services are utterly pointless.

IB knows nothing about equality law, appears to have no interest in equality for ALL staff hence her disinterest in the demographics of staff (religious beliefs etc). All she seems to do is copy and and paste from other documents and provides vague advice with no contemperious notes or records, then passes the buck to HR.

There is no purpose or benefit to the role which is paid more than nurses and paramedics.

Also, didn’t IB say today that some women might not even know that they were in the presence of a TIM in the changing room? And implied that this was therefore OK?

Just a thought on IB saying she basically copied other NHS policies. There must have been similar conflicts elsewhere.

Do we think they were dealt with sensibly, put trans in a 3rd space ie the cupboard
Or do we think they have been brushed under the carpet, put up and shut up?

Or a deliberate choice? Either way, very concerning.

Im quite sure women would notice meat and two veg in a changing room.

Yes, I'd like to know the answer to this too, but unfortunately I can't recall whether it was clarified in February. I think it's a key point (one of many).

I just cannot stand statements like "nobody raised it with me/nobody mentioned it/I'm not aware of any problems" etc etc etc

One of the reasons we have policies, rules and regulations in place is for clarity so that people don't feel they have to raise certain issues.

Many people may not feel able to speak to HR or their manager for whatever reason - fear, shyness, peer pressure, lack of confidence, cultural issues. The list goes on.

How a senior overly-paid DEI person does not understand this is beyond me.

Apparently this is part of IB's job description. It doesn't appear that she covered even the basics. The fact that no-one in a senior role cared is even more appalling.

In certain circumstances, and if someone is willing to pay what could be a lot of money, a transcript of an ET hearing can be produced. It would be good for one to be produced here. Let's see.

If your assumption is that you are female, I can't think of any chromosome abnormalities that wouldn't result in symptoms that would require investigation before reaching the age of 27.

In the UK you would need to intentionally avoid medical treatment to slip through the net.

@Needspaceforlego
well they don’t ALWAYS need to get their kit off!

Gillian Malone was Head of Nursing, Emergency Care, NHS Fife. Head of nursing since 1st July 2025