NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #28

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25
Thread 26: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5335861-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-26
Thread 27: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5372582-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-27

Why?

She's an ostrich who doesn't know about Stonewall.

Yes, this is exactly what happened to a woman who was raped in a hospital. Nothing to see here - no men were on the ward. https://www.kentandmedway.icb.nhs.uk/application/files/6616/5537/7359/FOI.22.KAM017_-_Single_sex_accommodation_policy.pdf

Is it just me or does JR come across as panicking a bit here

From TT

NC What specific rights under HR act does the first of those pleaded aims refer to.
IB I didn't contribute to this response. Logic here isn't necessarily the logic I used when giving advice.
NC When you gave advice, were you think about ppl's rights.
IB Yes, inc t ppl rights

On the plus side she seems too confused to even try lying like some have in various tribunals.

But she was 22 in 2018 when the crazy started. She's too old for that!

I don’t think many DEI leads would do much better than IB. The issue isn’t her, it’s that much of current DEI is rooted in woolly “be kind” theory instead of starting from a legal framework then applying it in a way that respects employees.

DEI does not mean do what makes you feel like you are a good person: it means focus on balancing complex intersecting rights in a way that is as equitable as reasonably possible.

I'm really interested in the thinking behind the post.

I wonder when it was created and who held it previously.

I would guess that the thinking behind the band is that the person who holds the post needs the authority to hold their own in discussions with other senior members of staff, and needs significant experience and expertise to hold the post. They need to be a Senior Sister type.

So how????

She is to Fife NHS what the dead terrorist is to Bruce Willis as he holds DT in front of him while running from A to B

And she's too clueless to even see it

Logic here isn't necessarily the logic I used when giving advice.

Translation.

Logic isn't my strong point. I was giving advice which was complete clap trap and wasn't logical.

That shouldn't happen though if they have a proper policy on when meetings are considered quorate, and that should be in the terms of if reference for each meeting. If clinical staff are needed then it shouldn't be too quorate without an appropriate number/type of them being present.

From TT

JR It isn't. Witness didn't say she mentioned Art 8 in her advice. Need to put Art 8 to her - she may understand the concepts.

She may understand the concepts? 😬

I despair. I've been shouting at my screen so much the cat has got fed up and gone off in a huff.

The utter, utter drivel IB is coming out with. I don't think she has the faintest idea she's going down and taking Fife with her.

From TT

NC You advised not letting this individual use women's cr might be discriminatory
IB I said not allowing t person to use room not aligning with g i could be discriminatory.
NC When you suggested not letting t person use sss aligning with their go, were you thinking of discriminat

To save themselves, I should think.

Yippee kay-ay, birthing parent fucker!

This earworm has just popped into my head:
There once was a troop of Irish Dragoons
Come marching down through Fife-e-o
And the captain fell in love with a very bonny lass
And her name it was called pretty Peggy-o

Is she insane?

Fifer Lennon/Katie Dolatowski - voyeur who preyed upon a 12 yr old girl in a supermarket toilet in Dunfermline and then escalated to attempted rape of a 10 yr old girl in a supermarket in Kirkcaldy - a stone's throw away from the Vic Hospital. (The girl got away by punching D in "her" nuts.)

Fife Peter Laing/Paris Green - participated in the torture and murder of a middle-aged man in Glenrothes. (Next town to Kirkcaldy.)

Fifer Andrew Burns/Tiffany Scott (numerous aliases in between) - died in prison. Numerous convictions for violence; stalked an adolescent girl whilst in prison. (Burns was from Kinglassie, village between Kirkcaldy and Glenrothes.)

She’s been hiding in plain sight too, shocking!

It was so similar in the ERCC tribunal... it's almost like when you see your cat playing with a mouse, letting it go and catching it over and over again. Poor dear sweet summer child mouse doesn't realise

Or in fact Article 8. the Human Rights article so often parroted by TRA's that I practically know it by heart. There's no way on earth she's unfamiliar with it.

Success has many parents; but failure is always an orphan.

They are hand picked to be the dumbest fuckwits who are incapable of critical thought and just like fluffy TV programmes about cute animals as opposed to ever considering watching the news.

Was she not at uni then? I thought she'd left in 2020, which would fit with her doing bar work until then.

I stand corrected, it was the perfect 5-7-5 format for a Haiku.
And, guess what - i loved it!